Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Austria–Georgia relations


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   No consensus found for deletion. Discussion provided reliable resources for expansion, article was kept. -- User:Docu 00:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Austria–Georgia relations

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another random combination noting that Austria does not have any resident embassy. There have been no visits from Austrian leaders or ministers to Georgia and most of the bilateral treaties are minor in nature. . Most searches reveal relations in a multilateral context especially Georgia-EU English search German search LibStar (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep since it does contain some information (date of diplomatic relations being established etc.) – you could also add in the fact that they are European partners. ╟─ Treasury Tag ► hemicycle ─╢ 11:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * do you have any reliable sources to prove bilateral relations. my searches in 2 languages could not find anything, simply establishing diplomatic relations is not enough for an article. LibStar (talk) 11:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave here, plus the fact that I only gave a weak keep :) ╟─ Treasury Tag ► hemicycle ─╢ 11:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Saying "weak keep" means "should be deleted but I like it" as far as I'm concerned. If you're not sure if something should be kept or not, state your concern and perhaps others will address it. This is a discussion, not a voting booth. Drawn Some (talk) 11:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Saying "weak keep" means "should be deleted but I like it" as far as I'm concerned. OK, as you wish, but it's common terminology, and I thought I made my points clear. ╟─ Treasury Tag ► hemicycle ─╢ 11:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Lack of in-depth coverage in independent reliable sources of this topic to achieve notability. For the record, government websites of an embassy are NOT independent for this topic.  If the newspapers and television people can't be bothered to cover it, and no one writes books about it, etc., it isn't notable and we don't synthesize some lame stub out of primary materials just to get rid of a red link on a template.  All of this is shameful the way it wastes time and puts editors in opposition over a contentless stub. Drawn Some (talk) 11:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete One more un-notable combination and permutation. Mentally append my comment on recipes. Collect (talk) 11:38, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The only useful content ever likely in this article are the links Foreign relations of Austria (which does not mention Georgia!) and Foreign relations of Georgia (which mentions only some trivial information about Austria, implying that there is nothing notable to say). Fails Bilateral relations. Johnuniq (talk) 12:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - not sure about contemporary relations (but I suspect that for Georgia Austria is one of the most important foreign partners these days), but historically Austria-Hungary and its ambassador Georg von Franckenstein were instrumental in the formation of the first, shortlived Democratic Republic of Georgia, together with the German and the Ottoman empire. For literature on these relations, see this book Stepopen (talk) 21:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This article is about relations between Austria and Georgia, not Austria-Hungary and the Caucasian nations. A related but entirely different subject. Basically most of the nations discussed in that book do not even exist today.Drawn Some (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking at some other articles on bilateral relations, the standard seems to be that these articles cover the complete history even if technically the countries do not exist anymore. See for example Germany–Russia relations which also deals with the relations between the German and Russian Empire or West Germany and the Soviet Union, countries that technically do not exist anymore but have clearly defined successors. Same applies for Austria as the successor of the Austrian-Hungarian empire and Georgia as the successor of the Democratic Republic of Georgia. Stepopen (talk) 23:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete No third-party coverage of the topic in relation to any other relationship. -- Blue Squadron  Raven  23:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 04:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Austria-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 04:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete not sufficiently notable. Recreate later if notability can be demonstrated. Hobartimus (talk) 15:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Georgia, Austria and Georgia have the following bilateral agreements:
 * * Agreement between Georgia and the Republic of Austria on Bilateral Foreign Economic Relations
 * * Memorandum of Understanding between the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Georgia and the Federal Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic Austria
 * * Air Transport Agreement between the Austrian Federal Government and the Government of Georgia
 * * Agreement between the Government of Georgia and the Government of the Republic of Austria for the Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments
 * * Agreement between the Government of Georgia and the Government of the Republic of Austria for Avoidance of Double Taxation
 * * Protocol on the Amendment to the Air Transport Agreement the Austrian Federal Government and the Government of Georgia
 * I think we can all agree that bilateral relations presently between Austria and Georgia exist. Important/notable? Perhaps in the eye of the beholder. Obviously there is room for growth, which is likely since Austria supports Georgia's integration into the European and Euro-Atlantic structures.--Cdogsimmons (talk) 04:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * as shown in other deleted articles, simply having a few minor agreements (and most of these are minor) does not necessarily indicate a notable relationship. If these agreements are widely reported in the media then it increases its notability. LibStar (talk) 08:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. The number of bilateral agreements these countries share is irrelevant. The only valid criteria for determining whether a stand alone article on this topic should exist on WP are the general notability guidelines:

If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article.


 * "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, and no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than trivial but may be less than exclusive.
 * "Reliable" means sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. Sources may encompass published works in all forms and media. Availability of secondary sources covering the subject is a good test for notability.
 * "Sources," for notability purposes, should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources. Multiple sources are generally preferred.
 * "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by those affiliated with the subject including (but not limited to): self-publicity, advertising, self-published material by the subject, autobiographies, press releases, etc.
 * "Presumed" means that substantive coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion. Editors may reach a consensus that although a topic meets this criterion, it is not appropriate for a standalone article. For example, such an article may violate what Wikipedia is not.
 * These criteria are clearly not met. There is no evidence in the article of significant coverage in independent, reliable sources, and I've found nothing on my own. Yilloslime T C  19:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete No reliable sources adress this in the depth required for an article. Hipocrite (talk) 20:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment Several scholarly studies on this topic have been published, see the bibliography of the article. They are not available online, and probably not in most libraries, but still academic scholars thought it worthwhile to publish on the role of the precedessor of todays Republic of Austria, the Austrian-Hungarian empire in the caucasus, including Georgia. Clearly there are reliable sources, they are just not easily accessible via Google but require a visit to the library. I have added aa short section from a book that I could find in my library, so this should demonstrate notability, and maybe one day someone will use the bibliography to expand on this topic. Stepopen (talk) 23:34, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * well you've got to 3rd June to rescue this article but as it currently stands it has 1 ref. Bilateral relations can easily be proven through google and news articles searches. LibStar (talk) 04:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I rather see an article with 1 academic reference and a bibliography with two academic books about the topic, than an article based on some random news clipping found by googling the words Austria and Georgia (or Österreich and Georgien. Stepopen (talk) 05:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * an article up for deletion won't survive with 1 reference. LibStar (talk) 05:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.