Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Avi Yemini


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 07:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Avi Yemini

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

No case made for notability. Fails WP:POLITICIAN Blackmane (talk) 03:35, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.  Every morning   (there's a halo...)  04:00, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete - Clearly fails WP:POLITICIAN, so not notable. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:51, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. I'm not entirely sure that the politician standards are the ones by which Yemini should be judged (I'd heard of him, but not of his political ambitions until I read the article). To my mind, he's an activist, or perhaps a "controversialist", if that's a word, attempting to move into politics, and may just get over the line on something more like GNG for that reason. That said, the sources currently out there don't seem to get him there, and neither does anything I can find not currently included in the article. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak delete, per BigHazs rational. Also, isn't there kind of precedent for deleting minor "celebrities" with a weak threshold for WP:GNG who clearly don't want an article here, especially if it is a magnet for WP:BLPVIOs and sourcing violations such as were already removed from article earlier? If he ever got famous enough it could always be brought back. He  iro  05:29, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I know the kind of thing you're thinking of, but I can't find it specifically (possibly just a long day on my part). Most of the time, things seem to work the opposite way - in that if someone just gets over GNG/specific guidelines, they have an article but we need to make sure nobody writes something ridiculous in it, rather than the subject being able to say "don't write about me at all". I'm almost tempted to say that in this day and age, if someone makes public comments enough (and I don't propose to define "enough" right now), they must surely expect that there'll be a Wikipedia article about them sometime. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:51, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it ever became anything "official", I've just seen it happen before. And by "a weak threshold for WP:GNG" I meant that grey area of is it not meeting/meeting GNG, like this one seems to be in. After re-reading my comment, though I might clarify that.  He  iro  06:05, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair point, and thanks for the clarification. I suppose that's where GNG comes in, really. If enough take the view we have (that he doesn't meet it), then no article, sort of thing. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:08, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you thinking of WP:BIODEL? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds like it, been several years since I paid attention to an AFD, so memory is fuzzy. Subject has not technically asked for deletion, they just disapproved of the article and sent their minions here to disrupt it (of which quite a few complied). Also at least one person contests deletion, so I am assuming this does not apply after all. Thanks,  He  iro  08:45, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There may also be the distinction between the subject "not wanting the page" and the subject "not wanting this page". Just as anyone who turns up in the public sphere enough should probably expect there'd be an attempted Wikipedia article on them, they should also be aware that they can't have the final say on the content if the page stays. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 12:04, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP: POLITICIAN. Otherwise, he is just another run-of-the-mill opinionated extremist. If he is elected to the provincial parliament, the article can be restored at that time. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  05:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * delete daily mail ref and all. oy. Jytdog (talk) 05:52, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Ive taken out all the Daily Mail refs. Nightfury 13:37, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep The article is not written about a politician. He is a high profile member of the alt-right in Australia who is regularly quoted in the mainstream media and is a regular commentator on Sky News. The politics is incidental, and only mentioned because he is otherwise notable. He is not dissimilar to Mohammad Tawhidi from a Jewish perspective. The premise for the delete is not accurate. (Smellytap (talk) 06:35, 8 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Rather than measure him as a political figure he should be measured as a person of significance within the Australian Jewish community, who also has a profile in the mainstream media. (Smellytap (talk) 06:46, 8 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Keep For my mind the article meets WP:GNG as the subject has has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. I also agree it fails as WP:POLITICIAN, but the article is not about a politician as much an critic/activist/celebrity. Hughesdarren (talk) 08:41, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Yemini is one of Australia's most significant far right figures and a cause of great debate and consternation in Australian Jewry's peak bodies (Executive Council of Australian Jewry, The Anti-Defamation Commission, and The Australian Jewish Democratic Society, as well as throughout the broader community. He has submitted to a Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights. As of time of writing, Yemini has over 120,000 Facebook followers. He has orchestrated a number of demonstrations in Melbourne, requiring a very large police presence, some of which resulted in violence and arrests. He has appeared extensively in - or has been reported on by - the Murdoch Press (The Australian, The Herald Sun, Daily Telegraph, the Fairfax press (The Age, Sydney Morning Herald), The Guardian, New Matilda, the Australian Broadcasting Commission, Sky News, Channel Seven (and its affiliate, Yahoo News), Channel Nine, Channel 10, 2UE radio, 3AW radio, Overland Journal, The Australian Jewish News, Plus61J, J-Wire, the Times of Israel, The Canberra Times, and Stuff. He was also a subject of a chapter in John Safran's bestselling book, Depends What You Mean by Extremist. (MorkMan74 (talk) 09:33, 8 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Comment Most of this was inadvertently copied whilst an editor was voting - excess votes removed, no further changes have been made. Nightfury 09:49, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. Per "keep" !votes above, Yemini is a media profile, has 120,000 facebook followers, etc, . But was has he actually done that's notable? According to the article, he "announced that he would be running for the Victorian Legislative Council" (but did not do so). He "attempted" to do this, was "involved" in that and "active" in the other, and is an "aspiring" politician! There's absolutely nothing notable by Wikipedia's criteria in any of these attempts and aspirations, as long as they don't bear fruit. Wikipedia is not for helping raise anybody's profile. Bishonen &#124; talk 10:13, 8 February 2018 (UTC).
 * As mentioned above, his notability is not his political aspirations, that is a side point. It has been introduced here as a red herring. His notability is surrounding his activities in the Australian Jewish community, especially in pushing his far-right view into the communal mainstream. (Smellytap (talk) 12:24, 8 February 2018 (UTC))


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Night<b style="color: White">fury</b> 09:54, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

The information on this page on Avi Yemini is biased and mostly incorrect. The author(s) are not painting a balanced picture of Avi Yemini and his activities. They are willfully trying to make him look bad. They leave out essential information. As it is now, it is impossible to form an honest opinion on this man and what he does. I would like to see this page removed or rewritten in a honest way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martina Theuns (talk • contribs) 10:02, 8 February 2018 (UTC) This user has made no edits outside this AfD. <b style="color: White;">Night</b><b style="color: White">fury</b> 13:36, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * This is not about the article's accuracy, which is all sourced. It is about whether Yemini is a notable individual who should have his own page. The content is a separate discussion which should take place on the talk page. (Smellytap (talk) 12:19, 8 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Delete Fails WP:POLITICIAN, as the article subject has of yet only announced his intent to run for office.--SamHolt6 (talk) 14:38, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Biographies need actual substance about notable persons. This person does not meet the general notability standards nor those for politicians. "Interviewing a notable person" does not confer notability on the interviewer. Sorry - I try to find reasons to Keep, but failed in this instance. Collect (talk) 15:29, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Strong delete per Bishonen. Home Lander (talk) 15:40, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Yemini has been the subject of extensive non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources, thus meeting WP:BASIC. That's pretty much it. Whatever we may think of him he meets our guidelines and the coverage clearly rings the WP:N bell. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:42, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. I am struggling to find anything of any weight that was not obviously prompted by his own efforts to generate exactly that coverage - i.e. churnalism. Guy (Help!) 22:03, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You are failing to find it because the ability to edit the article has been switched off. There is a *plethora* of *good* information about the millions of dollars spent on police presence because of demonstrations Yemini has organised. There has been a *deluge* of coverage of the man's attempts to gain power, his violent associates, his campaigns that have resulted in a Muslim media commentator having to flee Australia, while a number of left wing Jews have been physically threatened by Yemini's hundreds of thousands of followers. Frankly, how do you think people attain power? Only through 'good works'? Are there no other media 'personalities' covered on Wikipedia? If the editing ban gets lifted, I assure you all this information from meticulous sources such as the Australian Broadcasting Commission, The Guardian, and the Fairfax press will all be included. MorkMan74 (talk) 01:00, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Editing is only locked for brand new or IP editors. Regular editors with an established history can still edit. New SPA accounts like your can take any WP:RELIABLE sources they have to the articles talk page, here Talk:Avi Yemini, and start a discussion for including them in the article.  He  iro  01:24, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Please see the Talk page for an expanded list of non-trivial sources which back arguments for Yemini's notability. MorkMan74 (talk) 06:01, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Fails WP:POLITICIAN and WP:GNG. Just a collection of attention-seeking comments. Doctorhawkes (talk) 01:25, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete does not meet the notability guidelines for politicians. Any political candidate is going to be spoken ill of by their opponents. Any will get some coverage. We do not accept that just being a candidate is enough for notability, so notability is not passed here. Wesather he is actually running for office, or just says he intends to, but has not formally entered the election, is not even material. Short of winning the election he will not be notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:19, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I have no idea why people are fixated on the politics section. That is entirely incidental to the article, and could be deleted without majorly effecting the article. He is notable primarily for the impact he has had on the Jewish community pulling a number of community opinions to the far right, and more incidentally for his presence in the far right of Australia today. At the moment, this article is in danger of being deleted under false pretences. Perhaps it requires a re-write to better reflect the primary reason for notability. (Smellytap (talk) 03:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Because being "far-right" isn't a claim to notability. Being a politician, is. He fails to meet any real notability threshold, and is only marginally known for being controversial. Notorious, not notable. On top of that, the political career section is the only part of the article asserting notability. Feel free to rewrite the article, that's about the only thing that could swing the outcome of this AfD. Mr rnddude (talk) 03:58, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Let's assume having a network of 120,000 people on his Facebook network is not notable. Let's assume his place in Australian politics is not notable. Where is notability? Lyle Shelton is only a right wing commentator. Any number of people in the community are 'only commentators'. Let's also leave aside the millions of dollars he has cost the Victorian police in protecting rallies that he organised. But let's leave all that aside and pretend that is not notable. He was instrumental in the setting up of the AJA, the far right Jewish group, and has been central in a number of significant moves in the Jewish community over the past couple of years. (Smellytap (talk) 04:29, 12 February 2018 (UTC))
 * In order (1) Facebook network: so do thousands of other non-notable people, incl. twitter, youtube, instagram, and every other site. (2) Notability of politics: already been discussed above by everybody. (3) Lyle Shelton: (a) WP:ATA, specifically, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and (b) I think you mean Lyle Shelton (lobbyist) and not Lyle Shelton the aviator who set a world record. (4) The AJA: WP:NOTINHERITED. The notability of a group does not transfer notability to its founder. Although, I don't think the group has an article either. Anything else? As I've said, the only snowballs chance this article stands is for a substantial rewrite that would demonstrate notability. You're not presenting a convincing argument here. Mr rnddude (talk) 04:58, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but this is feeling increasingly bizarre. Have you read the Talk Page associated with this entry? The case for notability is laid out there with meticulous sourcing. How is it reasonable to claim that someone is not 'notable' when he has received tens of thousands of words in newspapers and hundreds of hours of radio and TV coverage? How is it reasonable to argue that someone is not 'notable' when he forces both State and Federal governments to spend millions on security and arrests connected to demonstrations he has organised? How is it reasonable to argue that someone is not 'notable' when his actions so clearly frighten the entirety of Jewish Australian leadership that at least three peak bodies have felt the need to issue media releases condemning him? How is it reasonable to argue that a person capable of mobilising over 100K people to rally, donate money, and issue death threats is not 'notable'? MorkMan74 (talk) 08:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Between Smellytap and MorkMan74, this getting very close to badgering. Doctorhawkes (talk) 10:32, 12 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The article has now been significantly edited, to emphasise his activities in the Jewish community. Much of the discussion above is now not relevant IMO. (Smellytap (talk) 13:39, 12 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Maintain prior !votes as not being invalidated.   The discussions above remain relevant, and massive use of a limited number of sources does not affect actual notability, which is the primary issue. In fact, I fear the use of such sources may verge on UNDUE in stressing a small number of facts. Collect (talk) 21:08, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The discussion is based on his failing to meet WP:POLITICIAN. Are you willing to concede that that is no longer relevant, and that all the votes that mention his political career as the primary focus for delete is no longer relevant? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smellytap (talk • contribs) 22:14, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't concede that, no. Anybody who has voted can change their vote in light of changes to the article, and you are welcome to ping them. Most people who vote will check back later to see if the article has changed and may change their vote accordingly, but mine remains the same. Doctorhawkes (talk) 00:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Comment User:Morkman has placed a large list of sources on the article talk page. I've gone through about half of them and, to sum it up, it's basically a WP:COATRACK from what I've seen so far. Of the sources I've read through so far only 1 focuses on the subject, most of the remainder give him a passing mention along the lines of "there was this protest/event and this guy appeared". Blackmane (talk) 04:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * This is demonstrably false. You admit you haven't gone through all the sources, so why on earth would you level such an accusation? There is no coatracking here at all. Yemini is most certainly the subject of almost all those articles. If he is mentioned in any of them tangentially, it is only because there are so many other matters of enormous consequence to be reported on.
 * It really does seem like there are some here scrambling for literally any reason to get rid of this article. One user, (talk, openly assured Yemini on his Facebook wall that she would move heaven and earth to get this article deleted. The thought that Wikipedia's content could be so easily manipulated is deeply upsetting and really troubling. MorkMan74 (talk) 02:42, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have replied on your talk page and will provide a summary of my views on each source if I'm able to get time before the end of the AFD. Lunar New Year is approaching and I may not be around for a few days due to RL commitments. If the AFD ends and the article is deleted, but you still want to discuss the sourcing, then feel free to save the links and we can discuss at length. Blackmane (talk) 04:59, 14 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.