Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Azim Wardak


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. WP:NPASR. I felt the "delete" arguments were stronger, but there was only one valid "delete" !vote apart from the nominator, i.e. WP:NOQUORUM. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 21:58, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Azim Wardak

 * – ( View AfD View log )

This is the biography of an Afghan civil servant. He held a fairly important position in the Ministry of Commerce (President of International Trade) but I don't think it's the kind of position that generates much media coverage especially in a country where journalism is more complicated than average. There is definitely a complete absence of English sources that discuss him specifically though obviously his name pops up from time to time as in the two references given in the article. There may be good sources in Arabic or in Pashto but I don't know how to Google that. The current article is clearly an attempt to praise his work and integrity but the references provided have nothing to do with the sentences that they are supposedly supporting. In short: the subject does not meet the requirements of WP:BIO. Pichpich (talk) 22:38, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Afghanistan-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 02:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 21:53, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep -- I added some references and some additional information. IMO if he is notable enough to have his opinion quoted in RS he is notable enough for an article.  Geo Swan (talk) 03:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The sources you added don't support the existing content. More problematic, being quoted in an RS doesn't make one notable. You're creating a rule that doesn't reflect our guidelines or policies. In particular, there can be no biographical article without sources that provide biographical information. Pichpich (talk) 03:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You assert "there can be no biographical article without sources that provide biographical information." And a counter-example would be False Geber -- as I wrote in what a biography should contain and The earliest sockpuppet to be unmasked Issac Asimov felt "False Geber" was significant enough in the history of Science that he selected him as one of the individuals for whom he covered in "Issac Asimov's Biographical Encyclopedia of Science".  At the time Asimov wrote about him nothing was known about false Geber, not his real name, birthplace, nationality, religion, where he studied, where he worked.  All that was known about him was that he had written a book, under another man's name, that documented a key development in scientific progress.  I suspect your assertion is not policy-based.  If it is I have no hesitation in stating that it is a mistake.  It is almost always what individuals have said, written, done, that confers notability on them.  Individuals whose notability is based on their birth parents, or birthplace, are exceptional.  Yes, ideally, we would want to supply birth-date, education, etc, for every biography.  But not knowing that information doesn't strip notability away from otherwise notable individuals.  Geo Swan (talk) 17:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice essay but irrelevant in this case. You're suggesting using a rule (quoted in an RS) that would make a school principal notable as soon as a news outlet reports his high hopes for his school's football season. It would also make everyone who's ever held a press-relations job notable. This is madness and it's not supported by current policy. But thankfully, it's also not supported by your essay. Azim Wardak is not False Geber: there are no sources that discuss the sad absence of info on Azim Wardak and no reliable source suggesting that Wardak is in any way remarkable. He held a high post in his country's ministry of trade, good for him. But Wikipedia is not LinkedIn and the threshold for inclusion of biographies is multiple instances of coverage of the subject specifically. Pichpich (talk) 18:16, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Isn't a relevant person, possibly try to autobiography. Thundersport (talk) 16:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:43, 29 January 2012 (UTC)




 * Delete. Links in the article are dead, irrelevant, or merely evidence existence. The only one that even faintly helps the notability case is the two-sentence quote in the Bangor Daily News. Faintly. References found in web searches mostly evidence existence, not notability. Fails WP:GNG. If better sources can be found, happy to look again. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 09:26, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep If an Afghan is also being written up in Arabic language sources (as noted above), he is probably more notable than English language sources indicate. Pseudofusulina (talk) 05:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I never said that he was being written about in Arabic, I said above that there might be sources in Arabic or Pashto. Unless you can actually point to such sources, you can't use them as a basis to keep the article. Pichpich (talk) 11:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * For some reason you know there might be sources in Arabic. Your speculation is based upon something, some hint of notability far beyond Afghanistan. Whatever it is based upon, it leads me to assert that notability attaches to an Afghan written about in the Arab world, whether we can find those sources or not. Pseudofusulina (talk) 16:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ??? If I knew of existing sources, I'd provide them and if I had any idea about where to look for additional sources I would obviously share those ideas and look there myself. You seem to base your 'keep' on the idea that I'm withholding information. This is absurd. Pichpich (talk) 17:43, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, you think Afghans are Arabs, and you suggested there might be good sources in Arabic, thinking Afghans write their histories and news in Arabic. Afghans aren't Arabs. Pseudofusulina (talk) 19:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Still keep, random, poorly based deletion that fails to assert proper reasons for deletion, other than the proposers thinks such and such a thing might be true. Pseudofusulina (talk) 19:55, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I said Arabic or Pashto. Pashto because it's commonly spoken in Afghanistan and Arabic because coverage in Arabic of predominantly Muslim countries is sometimes better than what one finds in English. I suppose I should have added Dari to the list. I clearly stated my rationale for deletion: this does not meet the requirements of WP:BIO and if you want to argue in favour of keeping the article, it would be nice if you could address that point substantively. Pichpich (talk) 20:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In Afghanistan it might be more likely they'll be in Dari than Pashto, and minor government officials in Afghanistan won't be covered in the Arab press just because Afghanistan is a Muslim country. In some instances if the official acquires a substantial level of regional coverage you could find information in Urdu or Farsi. If they attain national notability, you might find coverage in the Arab press, but then you might also find it in the English language Arab, Pakistani, and Indian press also.
 * "He held a fairly important position in the Ministry of Commerce (President of International Trade) but I don't think it's the kind of position that generates much media coverage "
 * You say he held a fairly important position, so that's you stating notability. When you follow with "I don't think" you're just giving your opinion without backing up with policy. Do you have any basis in fact for suggesting it doesn't generate media coverage, when you haven't begun looking in the most obvious language, Dari? It's a fairly important position, so I'm okay with that notability. Anyway, that's my say: keep. Pseudofusulina (talk) 04:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't confuse "notability" as defined in Merriam-Webster and "notability" in the technical sense used on Wikipedia. What I actually said in my nomination is that I don't see any evidence that Azim Wardak is notable in the latter sense (which is the important criterion) even though some may consider him Merriam-Webster notable. Pichpich (talk) 04:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.