Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B.C. Kochmit (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 05:11, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

B.C. Kochmit
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  Stats )

Man with a job, no proof of notability. The first "source" doesn't even mention him while the two other "sources" seem te be a weblog. Article earlier deleted in 2010 The Banner  talk 17:17, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - The article now has 3 references from Blabbermouth.net (considered a reliable source by Wikipedia) that state that Kochmit has been a member of 3 notable bands (one more than is required to have his own article).--Jax 0677 (talk) 17:36, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL, this looks like a desperate attempt to save the template of Switched. And can you please give a link to the mandatory three bands to be notable? The Banner talk 17:42, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - Sw1tched currently has several articles that do not link to one another without the navbox, notwithstanding the ones that I was able to create.
 * Sw1tched has had 3 (if not 4) notable members IMO. Ben Schigel has produced albums for many notable artists.  Chad Szeliga (Breaking Benjamin, Black Label Society) and Corey Lowery (Stereomud, Stuck Mojo) have performed in Sw1tched.  Will Hunt(Static-X, Evanescence, Black Label Society) and Clint Lowery (Sevendust, Korn) were in Dark New Day.  Will Hunt (BLS and Evanescence) and Corey Lowery performed in Eye Empire.  Kochmit has performed in Sw1tched, Dark New Day and Eye Empire.  WP:MUSIC states that "Members of two notable bands are generally notable enough for their own article" and "an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians" is a condition for being a notable band.  Blabbermouth proves that this is indeed the case.  The links you requested are as follows:
 * darknewday.com
 * eyeempire.com
 * myspace.com/switched


 * If we were to redirect Kochmit's article, to which band article would it be redirected?--Jax 0677 (talk) 18:27, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * • Gene93k (talk) 18:13, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I mean a link to a policy. And MySpace is not a reliable source... The Banner talk 22:53, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply - Per your latest comment requesting "a link to a policy", please refer to my comment above where I stated that:
 * "WP:MUSIC states that "Members of two notable bands are generally notable enough for their own article"
 * I am completely aware that MySpace is not a reliable source. Again,
 * "Kochmit has performed in Sw1tched, Dark New Day and Eye Empire" AND
 * "Blabbermouth proves that this is indeed the case".
 * There are four articles from Blabbermouth.net used as references in the B.C. Kochmit article. Also, you didn't answer my question.
 * If we were to redirect Kochmit's article, to which band article would it be redirected? If we redirect his article to one of the bands, why should we exclude the two others?--Jax 0677 (talk) 23:26, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  TheSpecialUser TSU 06:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment
 * 1) Kochmit has been a member of 3 notable bands when only 2 are required for WP:MUSIC.
 * 2) Blabbermouth.net supports this
 * 3) Why wouldn't Kochmit's article be redirected instead of deleted?
 * 4) If we redirect Kochmit's article, to which band article would it be redirected?
 * 5) If we redirect his article to one of the bands, why should we exclude the two others?

There are less than 12 hours remaining until one week of discussion has taken place. I would like to know what other issues (if any) need to be addressed so that I may address them forthwith and in good order.

Thanks!--Jax 0677 (talk) 06:25, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The article is still just one sentence, telling the world he had three jobs. If this article is supposed to be a BLP, it should be a bit more then that. Useless article by now. The Banner talk 11:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply -
 * Per WP:TOOSHORT, "Wikipedia has many stubs. These should not be deleted for this reason, but should be marked as stubs."  WP:SOFIXIT instead of bringing it to AfD.
 * Why wouldn't Kochmit's article be redirected instead of deleted?
 * If we redirect Kochmit's article, to which band article would it be redirected?
 * If we redirect his article to one of the bands, why should we exclude the two others?--Jax 0677 (talk) 13:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not cleaning up your mess. I have enough work on your shaky templates. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 14:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply - The article now talks about when Kochmit joined EE and DND.  The purpose of this page is to discuss Kochmit, not to insult other people's templates, and this is now the third time that my questions have been blatantly ignored.--Jax 0677 (talk) 14:40, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * From one sentence to two sentences. Great! And it is clear that this earlier removed article is just an attempt to save your Template:Switched because your created the article only after my nomination of the template. Creation: 9/8/2012 3:23. Nomination: 9/8/2012 1:53. Nice try. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 20:54, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply
 * If one or two sentences is insufficient for an article on English Wikipedia, why does WP:TOOSHORT say otherwise? WP:STUB states "While very short articles are likely to be stubs, there are some subjects about which very little can be written".  Billy Graziadei and Danny Lamagna started off as one sentence articles, but expanded shortly thereafter.
 * If there is a rule against creating a legitimate page about a musician who is a member of at least two notable bands, please show me where. I think that the date when I created B.C. Kochmit is irrelevant.  Also, can you prove that this is the reason that I created B.C. Kochmit?  If you can not, you are in violation of WP:AGF.  Also, the template for Sw1tched now has 7 articles, and the article for Kochmit has 7 sentences.  I will now turn to questions 3-5, which have now been blatantly ignored FOR THE FOURTH TIME.
 * Why wouldn't Kochmit's article be redirected instead of deleted?
 * If we redirect Kochmit's article, to which band article would it be redirected?
 * If we redirect his article to one of the bands, why should we exclude the two others?
 * If Dark New Day, Eye Empire and Sw1tched are notable, then so is Kochmit. If two of them are not notable, then AfDs should be filed against those two articles.  If two of those articles are deleted, then Kochmit should be redirected to the third article.  If all of the articles for which Kochmit is a member are deleted, then Kochmit should be deleted.
 * I have done my very best to respond to all concerns here completely, forthwith, and in good order. If my questions are legitimate, then blatantly ignoring them is obstructing WP:CONSENSUS.  If my questions are not legitimate at all, or are invasive, I have not been told why.
 * I apologize for needing to repeat myself, but concerns that I believe are legitimate have not been answered. Any other points of debate requiring discussion?--Jax 0677 (talk) 13:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - Meets WP:BAND point 6. -- Whpq (talk) 18:34, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed - Any other points of debate requiring discussion?--Jax 0677 (talk) 18:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The only thing that misses in this article is to tell who he is. It still is just a man with a job, nothing more. You can jump high and low about that, but there is nothing in the article about the man (assuming he is a man, the article fails to clarify even that), only about his jobs... <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 19:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Request for proof of policy requirement -
 * If infomation about one's personal life is mandatory in a biography of a living person, please let me know which Wikipedia policy states this explicitly. I will now move to questions 2-8, some of which have now been ignored for the FIFTH TIME:
 * If one or two sentences is insufficient for an article on English Wikipedia, why does WP:TOOSHORT say otherwise? WP:STUB states "While very short articles are likely to be stubs, there are some subjects about which very little can be written".  Billy Graziadei and Danny Lamagna started off as one sentence articles without details of their personal lives, but expanded shortly thereafter.
 * If there is a rule against creating a legitimate page about a musician who is a member of at least two notable bands, please show me where. I think that the date when I created B.C. Kochmit is irrelevant.  Also, can you prove that this is the reason that I created B.C. Kochmit?  If you can not, you are in violation of WP:AGF.  Also, the template for Sw1tched now has 7 articles, and the article for Kochmit has 7 sentences.  I will now turn to questions 3-5, which have now been blatantly ignored FOR THE FIFTH TIME.
 * Why wouldn't Kochmit's article be redirected instead of deleted?
 * If we redirect Kochmit's article, to which band article would it be redirected?
 * If we redirect his article to one of the bands, why should we exclude the two others?
 * If Dark New Day, Eye Empire and Sw1tched are notable, then so is Kochmit. If two of them are not notable, then AfDs should be filed against those two articles.  If two of those articles are deleted, then Kochmit should be redirected to the third article.  If all of the articles for which Kochmit is a member are deleted, then Kochmit should be deleted.
 * I have done my very best to respond to all concerns here completely, forthwith, and in good order. If my questions are legitimate, then blatantly ignoring them is obstructing WP:CONSENSUS.  If my questions are not legitimate at all, or are invasive, I have not been told why.


 * This is now the fifth time that my questions have been ignored without either being answered, or being told why they will not be answered. If my questions are not either answered, nor is a satisfactory reason given for not answering them, then these open action items should likely lead to a "Keep" or "Keep No Consensus" closure.--Jax 0677 (talk) 23:50, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.