Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B Major (record producer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗ plicit  23:54, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

B Major (record producer)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Non notable musician who fails WP:NMUSIC, the awards themselves aren’t notable either. Furthermore the sources are just mentions and don’t meet GNG. Xclusivzik (talk) 21:09, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:42, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete and WP:SALT - see Articles for deletion/B Major (Music Producer), Sockpuppet investigations/Bmusique99/Archive and Articles for deletion/B major (person) among other places. Notability has not changed since previous discussions and this latest account has posted the article under this new name in a deliberate attempt to circumvent all of the previous salting. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:49, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep : the article just need to be improved with prose cited to reliable sources, I don't think speedy deletion would help but rather redirect-move so that the article can be worked on
 * Motlatlaneo (talk) 22:07, 27 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete and salt. No real claim to notability, no significant coverage, too soon for an article. No amount of editing can overcome a lack of notability. The "controversy" is sourced to a couple of press releases (actually the same one, minimally rephrased). In the SPI linked above, I count at least half a dozen different titles of articles created about this person. --bonadea contributions talk 22:37, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt. It reads as a vendetta article: one sentence identifying him, three sentences about his early life, and four paragraphs plus a sentence about how somebody allegedly stole things from him. If he's notable at all, the article has completely neglected to give any reason to think so. Well, except for that "021 Music Awards" award. If you Google "021 music awards", you'll find in the neighborhood of ten hits, all of them publicity materials about ... B Major. One of his pieces mentioned the City Awards of Cape Town so I searched for to see if there was any mention of such an award that isn't about him, and came up with ten hits. I also tried  and came up with ten hits. What's odd is that I do find some mentions of "city awards" in Cape Town in reasonable-looking source that, where they are discussed, are made out to be a big deal, but then why is almost nothing written about them? So with no independent documentation of this person having received this one award whose own notability isn't clear, I don't believe we can establish WP:N compliance here. Largoplazo (talk) 00:11, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt. Has some coverage, but trivial, so fails WP:NMUSIC. Also reads as a drama magazine article, and is heavily biased in some aspects. As to possibly fixing the prose and adding sources, the thing is, these are the best sources you are going to get based off my research.Lectrician2 (talk) 01:12, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete no indication of notability. fails WP:GNG. DMySon (talk) 05:33, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Largoplazo. It's not clear that notability is there right now and I don't think further investigation would be fruitful at this time. I am okay with the salting as well provided that an "unsalting" can occur if notability can ever be established on this topic. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 20:46, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep . The subject has worked on two Showmax films namely Four Corners and Nommer 37, the latter where he was credited under Sound department with his legal name Bjorn Martin, and in Four Corners he was credited only. See this Four Corners (2013) and Nommer 37.
 * The article can still be improved, time is all I'm asking for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Motlatlaneo (talk • contribs) 07:43, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * As I already explained to you on your talk page, a lack of notability is not a problem that can be fixed in an article because its existence or nonexistence is based on factors outside of Wikipedia. See WP:OVERCOME. Largoplazo (talk) 11:04, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Having worked on the sound of a film isn't a notable accomplishment. It also isn't clear that the use of archive footage that included him in a film in which he didn't perform contributes to notability. Largoplazo (talk) 11:09, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * - please only vote once in a discussion. You can write 'comment' instead if you want to comment further. I have struck your 2nd keep vote. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:40, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep : in my broad perspective, This article should remain a stub, he kind of seems to be an important sound designer and record producer in his city having one of South Africa's biggest online news outlets such as IOL News who wrote about his story, As well notable newspaper outlets about his controversy with a notable person Youngsta CPT for a song which was included on the award winning album 3T by Youngsta CPT. he has coverage in press (some which are trivia i agree) but has potential to be a stub only as he is already in the public eye of trusted newspapers, Magazines and blogs. As i understand from the articles, He is the first musician from his community to be nominated for an 021 music awards during Lockdown not allowing the actual awards ceremony to take place physically, instead it was held virtually and personally with nominated artists. You may reach out to the music awards for verification about this entity The City Awards NOTE: Their website is currently down after the ceremony but should be able to find site owners information and get verified logs from the city awards. The City Awards is a large chain of award shows, celebrating the achievements of individuals in the entertainment industry. This year the shows were held in Johannesburg, Pretoria, Cape Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth, East London, Bloemfontein, Polokwane and Rustenburg. 011 Awards (2021) 031 Awards (2021) StephenWilliams021 (talk) 13:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * , your report motivated me to take another look, so I tried to track down some of this information, but I'm just not finding what you're finding. The only things in IOL I could find was in a story about the alleged theft, with YoungstaCPT appearing to be the focus and B Major positioned as the person by whom he was being accused; and a review of a double CD on which, it vaguely seems (the review isn't clearly written) that a "Bei Maejor (pronounced B Major)" has a track on it. As for the 021 awards, as I'd written above, Google returns practically nothing for a search of "021 music awards", all of which, aside from a couple of odd Facebook pages of unclear relevance, were about B Major. A search for "021 awards" gave me 37 results, many of them unrelated, two of them being the awards' Twitter and Instagram feeds, and almost all the rest being profiles and bios of people sharing their own receipt of an award. It's hard to conceive of awards like these being well noted offline in this day and age without corresponding independent coverage online, so I'd be hard-pressed to conclude that an award such as he received was significant in establishing his notability. If I'm missing something on any of these fronts, can you steer us to some sources? Largoplazo (talk) 04:11, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I just looked up "Bei Maejor" and learned that that stage name appears to belong to a different person in the music industry, a Brandon Green from Detroit, Michigan, who later dropped the "Bei" to go by Maejor. So that IOL CD review I mentioned wasn't even about B Major. Largoplazo (talk) 04:16, 31 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, Subject fails WP:GNG and I could't find any significant coverage. NatalieRci (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, Fails WP:GNG - no decent RS for this anywhere I can see. Maybe WP:TOOSOONDeathlibrarian (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment : Hello Bro :) Largoplazo, I found two websites today while searching subject's different alias names and real name, it seems there are verifiable non trivia links of this subject but it doesn't really seem to be indexed to search engines somehow. on my one device i search his name and 3 to 4 articles show but on my other one HTC Android there's a little bit more content. i had to use coding to run his keywords through almost 50,000 websites in South Africa which took its own time and what i found this far are two links sadly InfoFamousPeople and (Kaapstad Muso gets street named after him) this is all sources i could find today but will do more research. StephenWilliams021 (talk) 17:10, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment : Largoplazo WP:BASIC explains that "primary sources may be used to support the content of an article, as they are not against the rules. However, and even when used, primary sources do not contribute toward notability and may only support other content." but this subjects articles are undeniably independent and apparently is getting a street named after himself (article listed in my last comment). i'll find more proof needed to show this subject qualifies for a Stub while more information is being revealed.StephenWilliams021 (talk) 18:20, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment . : can someone answer this question for me please, If someone gets a Street named after themselves is that something of importance or (trivia)? i'm asking based on an article i read earlier today.StephenWilliams021 (talk) 21:40, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment : Spiderone can you, Deathlibrarian, Lectrician2 , NatalieRci or Xclusivzik please explain to me if someone gets a street named after themselves is that something of importance of trivial? The subject is a topic written about daily in the local news papers and online news in South Africa , but doesn't really contain the keywords B Major (Record Producer) as that is only his disambiguation on the encyclopaedia, Im running searches with all keywords his known by as well as record labels and associations, and have found a few more things which I will share a bit later as Im not by the PC I did the research on . But I enjoy deep searching for these articles, it makes me wonder how many other totally qualified wiki articles were removed because wikipedians couldn't find coverage due to low CPC on most articles but those that do show on search engines are high engagement articles. I read somewhere that the subjects father was a musician too and he has a book published of ages ago where he talks about Bjorn and the rest of his children, I don't know if it's possible to even finds the book but I'm trying my best. As per the question and articles what proof more is needed? I would really like to know if any of this information I'm providing is actually contributing positively to the encyclopaedia as I'm currently deep searching other articles on wiki too which are nominated for deletion, I need to know if my searches and sources are helpful here to other Wikipedians so we can decide the fate of this article. Im currently working on 3 other subject articles with the AFD tags, I'm trying to contribute by doing deep research on a subject and going through the depths and time to get sources and information. StephenWilliams021 (talk) 12:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Having a street named after you is not evidence of notability, in my view. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:42, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Spiderone so what you are saying is in your view that article is trivial? Think about it, Not anybody gets a streets named after themselves, you do need a whole community to get the government to allow a petition which they will approve once a certain amount of signatures have been signed and the community said that it will be happening as they have confirmed with the media company.StephenWilliams021 (talk) 13:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * In the absence of actual significant coverage, it isn't notable. If your intention is to use 'has a street named after him' as a substitute for passing GNG, then it won't stick. There are millions and millions of streets across the world and we can't have an article on every single person that has one named after them, that would be absurd. Also your source for this is unreliable. See the disclaimer at the bottom; it is user-submitted. Thank you to Kaapstad4Life for reaching out to us for the story. and Opera News is a free to use platform and the views and opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not represent, reflect or express the views of Opera News. Any/all written content and images displayed are provided by the blogger/author, appear herein as submitted by the blogger/author and are unedited by Opera News. We cannot accept this on Wikipedia. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:41, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * A man writing about his own life and discussing his children isn't an independent source and confers no notability to the children. Please don't misunderstand me: Your diligence in trying to pull together useful information is commendable. But the bar for inclusion of an article topic is rather high. Largoplazo (talk) 13:15, 2 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment : Spiderone You are incorrect about the source being unreliable. Kaapstad4life is a Non Profit Organization founded by the Subject B Major, it is supported by small donations to help feed the needy in Cape Town, Of course things like these don't often get press in cape town but the management behind Kaapstad4life wanted the same journalist who wrote his first big story to write about the big achievement the subject has accomplished and that's why they gave Opera News the Original Story instead of News outlets such as IOL News and The Daily Voice. you telling me Opera news is not reliable? i'm laughing so hard my stomach hurts. if that was true than that means IOL news as well as The Daily Voice are unreliable and un-trusted sources? because both those news outlet (IOL News and The Daily Voice) are part of the biggest news outlets in south africa and they wrote about the same controversy the subject had with notable rapper Youngsta CPT. the first article that started the controversy came from the same trusted and reliable source at opera news which wrote this article Kaapstad Muso is getting street named after him he is also the journalist who started the controversy with the first article on Opera News BREAKING NEWS: SA musician Bjorn Martin claims YoungstaCPT stole his musical composition which was labelled Breaking News by OPERA. but not too long after the article was published, IOL News which is considered reliable on wikipedia wrote about Opera News Article about the subject check here - youngstacpt responds to claims that 1000 mistakes music composition was stolen. not too long after IOL News Wrote the huge article about a source you claim is unreliable, One of Cape towns biggest and well known Newspapers wrote about the same story check here Youngsta im no song skelm. and these are article which have physical print copies being sold by the newspaper outlets. The Writer at Opera News who wrote and are writing these entertainment/drama articles is clearly a trust and reliable source from Opera News themselves otherwise 2 of the biggest news outlets wouldn't have wrote or published the same article which was published on Opera News first have they knew it wasn't a reliable source. Opera News wrote the first article and everyone followed along. check the dates, and you also said that articles don't represent, reflect or express the views of Opera News?????? have you even read the articles which came after this Opera News one? IOL says "B Major" spoke to Opera News, opera news gives stories to write about and the media writer has to do their research and report back before its considered a solid story to publish. I'm South African and i know these thing like the back of my hand. Largoplazo if Opera News is considered Unreliable that means IOL News and The Daily Voice are also unreliable sources because they use material published by Opera News and i can go ahead & tag all the pages with those sources for AFD (deletion) and i will challenge everyone who asks why i want to delete those articles, because apparently South Africa's biggest news outlets are all of a sudden "Unreliable" as said by Spiderone. StephenWilliams021 (talk) 11:18, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * The notes at the bottom of the Opera News source that Spiderone pointed out say almost flat out that that article is what doesn't count on Wikipedia as a reliable source. It's basically one person's personal blog post. These do not meet WP:RS. You can laugh all you want, and yet Opera News itself essentially says that that article isn't a reliable source. (There's a difference between material published by a publisher's own organization that is reviewed and vetted (possibly reliable), and material on a section of its site that it makes available to unfettered access by independent writers (not reliable). Their footnote says that this is the latter case.) And now you tell us that the Kaapstad4life that "reached out" to them for the story is B Major's own organization. So the piece was written at his (or a colleague's) behest. Therefore, it contributes nothing to a finding of notability, regardless of the publication it's in or the website it's on, just as being discussed in a book by his father contributes nothing to notability.
 * If "South Africa's biggest news outlets" are actually just free-to-use websites where people can post what they want, then, yes, they are not reliable sources. However, I just looked at what at the moment is the top story on IOL, and it has no disclaimer anywhere on it like the Opera News article article has that says it's a free-for-all publication service. The same goes for Daily Voice. So your if-this-then-that argument is invalid. Each is its own publication, and that Opera News article is not one we can rely on. Because Opera News itself says it takes no responsibility for it. Largoplazo (talk) 12:37, 3 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.