Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bahram Nouraei (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The consensus here is that there is only one reliable source supporting this page, if someone wants the page userfied until more is available please let me know. J04n(talk page) 20:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Bahram Nouraei
AfDs for this article: 
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Fails WP:MUSIC. The previous AfD was very controversial and the result was keep. The only RS of the article is a paper of Rolling Stone Middle East. One year later, I've found nothing else. Farhikht (talk) 15:19, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete - This case is very very borderline and I can see why previous discussions have been controversial. That said, I'm having difficulty seeing which criteria under WP:MUSIC this guy meets. As Farhikht points out, additional coverage doesn't seem to have occurred. NickCT (talk) 15:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Sir  Rcsprinter,  Bt  (message)  @ 15:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Sir  Rcsprinter,  Bt  (articulate)  @ 15:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete. This rapper exists, but lacks sufficient substantial RS coverage, and fails to meet GNG.  Also fails to meet our music notability guideline.  Article created by an apparent single-purpose account.--Epeefleche (talk) 15:56, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak support - so he fails to meets these guidelines... Or so we thought. There could be sources about him in Persian, which we neglect to research and translate. The fact that his albums exist indicate that he could make an impact on others. Also, Hong Kong singers target primarily at Chinese music listeners, and bios about them still exist, even if small. In this case about Iranian rapper, why should failing those guidelines prevent readers from learning about this person? --George Ho (talk) 22:17, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * AfD 101. Foreign language RSs are perfectly good support.  I read the first dozen ... those are non-RS blogs, and wikis, and other non-RSs.  Nothing in Persian in Gnews that we can use either.  We don't say -- nothing is discoverable, even in a foreign language search, but he exists so let's cover him.  We have something called a notability guideline, and we make decisions by applying it.  Otherwise, we might as well just accept everything that "exists" or where there is an editor who says "why should our guidelines prevent readers from learning about a non-notable person who exists?"  Thats a longer discussion, and not a guideline-based !vote.--Epeefleche (talk) 23:26, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The Google News... there might be something wrong with it. I typed 'Wii Playstation xbox' and found Chinese archives in Google News Archives. I'm sure they have English, but somehow Google must have manipulated the search engine with some code... whatever it is. --George Ho (talk) 01:37, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've checked the article in Persian Wikipedia before nominating this one for deletion. The sources of the article are 2 Facebook page (1, 2) of Bahram, an interview with Hichkas that I can't open, and 2 articles by Nassir Mashkouri, one of them has been published in his own blog and other one on beshkan.co.uk a non-notable website. The VOA report is in fact an interview with a singer (Shahin Najafi) and Nassir Mashkouri about Iranian hip hop. Other sources of the Persian article are collection of videos of Bahram, his manifesto, etc.Farhikht (talk) 08:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep No slamdunk, but the essay at WP:BIAS is relevant. There is the RS ME source. Bahram's address to Ahmadinejad, "Letter to the President", is cited in  Laudan Nooshin scholarly overview of Persian hip hop ("Hip Hop Tehran", Migrating Music, ed. Toynbee, Dueck, Routledge, 2011)—where Nooshin links the track to Tupac's track of the same name and uses it to suggest the influence of the Western gangsta rap paradigm. Nassir Mashkouri, an expert in the field as per the previous car-wreck AFD, has a piece on the subject both on his own site, and published in zirzamin.se, itself a probable RS. Bahram features in a VOA report, seen by we who attended the last afd closely. He was the subject of this report, probably from TV 2 & there are resources which no editor has yet been equipped to access  (e.g. Sholeh Johnston. "Persian Rap", Journal of Persianate Studies, Volume 1, Number 1, 2008 (pp. 102-119), Mohammed Mehdi Mowlaei. "Classifications of Meaning in Persian Rap Music", Haft Sang, 1 February 2008, R.C. Elling. ""Zirzamin: Hip-Hop i den Islamiske Republik"", in Mellemøstens Ansigter ed. Jorgen Baek Simenson, historie-nu.dk, 2006, E. Bilan, M. Gholami & N. Monavvary. "The Sociology of Rap Music", anthropology.ir.)   86.42.94.218 (talk) 04:29, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
 * — 86.42.94.218 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. <- Clicking contribs will show this note to be untrue.
 * The !vote here by Irish IP 86.42.94.218 at this AfD was the 5th page the IP edited ever, on the 3rd day the IP edited ever. Furthermore, though quite possibly unrelated, as one can see by looking at the last AfD, a preponderance of keep !votes were by a sockmaster and its puppets at the last AfD, which heightens my concern that the !votes considered at this AfD be those of wp editors in good standing.  There, Jigsawnovich was identified as a sockmaster of BacheMosbat, and posted at iranian.com vis-a-vis that AfD, and Jigsawnovich was blocked indef, BacheMosbat was blocked indef as a sockpuppet of Jigsawnovich, Persian Clique was blocked indef as a sockpuppet, and a fourth editor who was a sockpuppet (BacheMosbat) was used to extend the term of the AfD, and a fifth editor Godsnewphew was blocked indef for abusing multiple accounts. --Epeefleche (talk) 17:49, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Contributions/86.42.93.209 Contributions/86.42.74.117 Contributions/86.42.88.41Contributions/86.42.74.65 here are some other contribs going back about a month. strange that you do not recall our numerous interactions, such that you called me "Mr. Music IP" and such. 86.42.90.239 (talk) 13:50, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - per nom, the only RS is Rolling Stone ME, asserts some notability but not enough for an article, there is always more RS for notable musicians. Spada II ♪♫ (talk) 10:07, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - Cuts a very thin line on notability and GNG, but searching for the arabic name "هرام نورایی" yields some more bits including another review and background on sites like this. (Google Translate used) Zirzamin seems little more than a blog, but it is a registered company and represents the underground music scene, so at the risk of being laughed at, I'll point to this as a secondary RS which can be included. Other numerous ones exist, but are not currently cited. It will take some work, but the BBC ONE interview seems to have 404ed. Someone will need to dig around, but it seems to meet GNG. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 14:16, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think that Zirzamin has an editorial oversight. I know that the main editor of the website is Nassir Mashkouri and the above source is in fact the same article which has been previously published in beshkan.co.uk and the author of the article is Nassir Mashkouri.Farhikht (talk) 14:38, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Userfy, until more RS are found (second ref is now a dead link). Subject does not (yet) meet WP:MUSICBIO.  Mini  apolis  15:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Since it does not as you point out (yet) meet our notability guidelines, is that a suggestion to delete -- but, as we do whenever we delete at AfD (almost whenever), leave open the opportunity of any editor continuing to work on it so that if sufficient appropriate RSs appear in the future the editor can try to write an article with this as the skeleton?--Epeefleche (talk) 19:27, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.