Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bake (band)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Shimeru (talk) 19:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Bake (band)

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

I'm not able to find anything about the band itself. The lead singer had a mention in relation to an earlier band, the Semibeings (an article I'm not nominating, although it's recently been proded). The references on this page are both about the Semibeings, not to this band. And the NY Times reference is a very brief mention in relation to a record label they [the Semibeings] were on.

Google news, blogs, books searches reveal nothing (used: bake "joe baker" "pat baker" band, and similar permutations to search, with and without quotes) that I was able to find, and google web search's closest hit is for a Pat Baker myspace page (not sure if it's the same). Shadowjams (talk) 22:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  —  D OOMSDAYER 520  (Talk|Contribs) 22:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, NN, all I get on a G News search is related to the act of baking.  C T J F 8 3  chat 05:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Do not delete. This is a new band so there won't be much about them specifically right now. I found new sites for them: http://www.reverbnation.com/#/bake and http://www.myspace.com/bakerock. If members of one band of note (The Semibeings) start another band, it is worthy of mention in Wikipedia. Also, search by what you are not finding. You will not find any other mention of an american rock band using a chinese instrument called the Guzheng. That alone makes them unique and worthy of an article. Based on the other things Wikipedia allows entries for, this band deserves an entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.19.185 (talk) 13:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Which criteria at WP:BAND does it meet? Myspace is in no way a reliable source.  C T J F 8 3  chat 17:36, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Which criteria? Let's see:

1.Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.

Yes, these are former members of the Semibeings who were the subject of MANY published works like the one documented from the New York Times. The fact is, the New York Times and these other publishers covered these individuals, so it does not matter whether they are now in a new band who has not had much coverage yet. They are also listed in a book: Alternative Rock : Third Ear - The Essential Listening Companion by Dave Thompson. Their albums were released on the lengendary indie labels Shimmy Disc and C/Z.

2.Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.

They have charted on Reverb Nation's site. 5.Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).

Their prior band did which makes their current band worthy of mention. Their albums were released on the lengendary indie labels Shimmy Disc and C/Z.

6.Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles.

Yes, both independantly and together The Semibeings, Mouthpiece, Junkygood. These are groups with a prominent cult status. 7.Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

The Baker brothers are prominent in the history of music in the Hamilton/Mercerville area of central NJ. They are also the only rock band in the western world that uses a Guzheng. So, they address both of these criteria pretty well. Here is a local area newsclip about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=petOf_hQijc

10.Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc.

The Baker brothers previous band The Semibeing's music was featured on a number of season's of MTV's the Real World and Road Rules during the 1990's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.19.61 (talk) 16:05, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you provide links? And just because the Semibeings might be notable for an article, doesn't mean Baker automatically is, even if they have the same members.  C T J F 8 3  chat 17:30, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Keep Bake! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.18.75 (talk) 18:46, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

There are NY times and allmusic links on the page itself and I just provided a youtube link I found. Ctjf83,Your statement seems to contradict # 6 for band criteria. It's pretty clear these guys fit the criteria for a band. Maybe not as strongly as you would argue, but still enough. It's not like these are just some random guys who started an unknown band. They have done enough to warrant this page according to the wikipedia rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.19.61 (talk) 21:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment User:Ctjf83 is correct, I think, in asking for links to establish notability. For better or worse, youtube links don't qualify. And as intriging as the use of a Guzheng may be (speaking as someone who made a pickup by hand for a dulcimer made from a kit, and who then played said instrument through a 800 watt sun amp), I don't think that establishes notability. BUT, that being said, if the members or the band have been the subject of many articles, as claimed, it should easy to establish notibility. --Nuujinn (talk) 23:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete looking at IPs addresing wp:music. #1 coverage of another band does not make Bake notable. #2 not a national chart. #5 another band releasing albums does not make Bake notable. #6 while Pat (and him only from the evidence provided) may be considered by some to be notable that does not make everything he does notable. #7 no evidence of claim (verifiability) and the Hamilton/Mercerville area appears not to be a city. no evidence they are the only rock band in the western world that uses a Guzheng and that would not make them notable. #10 another band having their music used does not make Bake notable. no notability shown, lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. duffbeerforme (talk) 09:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't Delete Duff Beer, you really don't address # 6. Pat was in The Semibeings and Mouthpiece, both independantly notable ensembles in that they have both had records released on legitimate and quite credible labels. The other stuff you make a good point, but it's subjective and can be argued as I already have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.19.226 (talk) 13:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * (duplicate "vote") Please stick to one "vote" per AfD, as you have said don't delete up higher too.  C T J F 8 3  chat 18:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually let's read #6 "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles." Noone from The Semibeings has their own page, so therefore Bake doesn't contain 2 or more independently notable musicians. And the 2nd part doesn't apply to bands, but to their members.  C T J F 8 3  chat 18:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete unless verifiable and reliable references which establish notability are put into the article. Right now there are none establishing Bake. What reference are there establish the notability of people who may or may not be in Bake, but as far as I can see, Bake is not mentioned at all in those references. Also, only the last two paragraphs of the article are about bake. --Nuujinn (talk) 16:00, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Look, I understand that Wikipedia can't just allow anyone to put just anything up...but this is a bit different. As far as I can see they satisfy the criteria decently. Aren't there a TON of entries on wikipedia that you can focus on that will better suit everyone's time? As far as I can tell, you guys are just subjectively nitpicking this page. Why not focus on pages that really need to be fixed? This page is accurate and according to the criteria aruably makes the cut. No one has convinced me otherwise. Why not go find some real BS entries to delete? These guys deserve the page and it's really not making any credibility difference to wikipedia so why not leave it be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.19.226 (talk) 16:57, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Can anyone give a good arguement how they don't at the least fit # 6? These are two guys that were in a few band's of note. The original band's fit the criteria for a band due to having worldwide releases on record labels among other things. These guys now formed a new band satifying 6. (Another band is not simply "anything" as Duff beer mentioned). The NY times and allmusic articles verify that Joe and Pat were members of the Semibeings. Bake's websites list the same two people.
 * Although I hate pointing out essays and are generally very opposed to them in general...WP:OTHERSTUFF and the following section.  C T J F 8 3  chat 18:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Again, address my point about # 6 rather than focusing on a separate part of my comment that you can find evidence for your side about. I was simply trying to appeal to the group as to why it's so very important to feel it should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.118.19.226 (talk) 19:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I don't see any of the musicians of Semibeings or Bake being notable outside the band, so they wouldn't meet the criteria for 6.  C T J F 8 3  chat 19:03, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.