Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bank of Maine Ice Vault


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Mkdw  talk 22:00, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Bank of Maine Ice Vault

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Appears to fail WP:GNG with only highly-localized WP:NOTNEWS coverage of a hockey team as its sources. Outside of a local place of interest, it gets no significant coverage from independent outside sources to make this anymore notable than any other city rec center. Was de-prodded as "large enough to be notable". As far as I am aware, size has absolutely no inherent presumed notability and still must have received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of the subject (from GNG). Not mention a capacity of just over 500 is not exactly large, most high school gyms are that big. This only is covered by the city paper or a few WP:ROUTINE mentions about "such-and-such local team played at Ice Vault". No other decent results under the current Camden National Bank Ice Vault name. Yosemiter (talk) 19:12, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Unless, of course, you click "news" on the search bar and see the the arena, the collapse, and issues like financing and construction standards have been covered in press from Bangor to Portland - although this arena is Hallowell.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:00, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I did use the search bar, it had 43 hits. Only two were not strictly mentions of "such-and-such local team played at Ice Vault". One is the article from the Kennebec Journal reporter about its opening, another in the Portland Press Herald is basically a press release about it getting a name. Unless articles about winning best snack in an arena in Central Maine makes it notable. Yosemiter (talk) 16:08, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maine-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:35, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:36, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 23:37, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Lacks the significant coverage required to meet WP:GNG. Passing mentions and some local coverage of its opening do not show notability. Papaursa (talk) 17:39, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I believe my original comment is still valid. However, the topic seems to have changed from the article's current topic to making the topic History of Ice Rinks in Hallowell, Maine.  I don't care to do the research necessary to cast an informed vote on this new topic, so I have struck my original vote. Papaursa (talk) 20:38, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Morning Sentinel; Waterville, Me. [Waterville, Me]04 Mar 2014: 1.A. ; Arena developer defends use of TIF Portland Press Herald; Portland, Me. [Portland, Me]01 Mar 2014: A.1. Like so many pages, this one on a public building of regional importance just needs improvement.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:54, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. collapse of the old Kennebec Ice Arena got INDEPTH press coverage, unsurprising - it's Maine. Roofs are supposed to withstand snow:  Officials scramble after roof collapse: They say they're still trying to figure out what happened at the Kennebec Ice Arena Wednesday. Portland Press Herald; Portland, Me. [Portland, Me]04 Mar 2011; The memories that never will be erased: The Kennebec Ice Arena played a pivotal role in the development of hockey and other activities. Hawkins, Gary. Portland Press Herald; Portland, Me. [Portland, Me]13 Mar 2011.   New arena also gets coverage: Collapsed arena rebuilt, and it's 'incredible': The $4 million Bank of Maine Ice Vault replaces the Kennebec Ice Arena in Hallowell, built in 1973. Stewart, Bill. Portland Press Herald; Portland, Me. [Portland, Me].; Ice Vault critique unfair
 * Keep as has coverage in multiple reliable sources as shown above so meetes WP:GNG, local sources are acceptable for the topic of buildings, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 15:57, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Except this is not the old Kennebec Ice Arena, it is the arena that replaced it after the collapse, maybe that arena should have an article instead (unless it is WP:1E for the roof collapse). Your cite Collapsed arena rebuilt, and it's 'incredible': The $4 million Bank of Maine Ice Vault replaces the Kennebec Ice Arena in Hallowell, built in 1973. Stewart, Bill. Portland Press Herald is a reprint from the Kennebec Journal (as it says right at the top of the page) and the KJ covers Hallowell. Ice Vault critique unfair is a Letter to the Editor from the Morning Sentinel which covers the cities and towns in parts of Franklin, Kennebec, Penobscot and Somerset counties, in which Hallowell is included. Note: both of the above papers are regional, but are printed and distributed by the Portland Press Herald and are archived on that paper's website. I am not convinced that archived articles in a large paper from its regional papers is significant non-routine coverage. Yosemiter (talk) 16:08, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not at all unusual for corp. to own several editorially independent papers, and to host them on the same website (economically efficient). Have you looked into the corporate structure of these papers?E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:06, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor 20:07, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
 * We can cover both the old arena that had the roof collapse, and the new arena in a single article. Surely we can afford the paper and ink to include an article about a stadium that has had SIGCOV when the roof caved in from too much snow, when the new stadium was built, and related to financing questions surrounding the new building.  Multiple WP:RS exist.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:06, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, per ], including that surely there can be combined coverage about the previous and new versions of the building/ice rink, probably best as one article. --[[User:Doncram|Doncram (talk) 18:23, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. While it has a different name and structure, it is essentially the same arena as the one it replaced. Together, there are multiple, independent sources covering the subject in-depth.--TM 11:14, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, per all above and E.M.Gregory's sources. This does appear to meet WP:GNG. Ejgreen77 (talk) 12:56, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Collapse of the old Kennebec Ice Arena got INDEPTH press coverage and there are reliable independant sources to prove it so clearly passing WP:GNG. Vinodbasker (talk) 04:37, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

To all of the above voters, I did not nominate the Kennebec Ice Arena (which at one point had its own article before being redirected here in 2012), I nominated the Ice Vault that replaced it and the sole topic of the current article. It does seem that most agree the coverage Ice Arena with the collapsed roof meets GNG (despite sounding like a WP:ONEEVENT and WP:GEOSCOPE situation), however, it has two sentences in the current article and no one has addressed the coverage of Ice Vault alone. Maybe it should be split as a historical arena for the Kennebec Ice Arena? That is why there are so many articles about former MSGs at Madison Square Garden (disambiguation). Even on the Ice vault talk page, the local editor seems to say the same. Otherwise, I agree with User:Papaursa, the references and votes are about "ice arenas in Hallowell", not the topic at hand, the Ice Vault. In essence, you are not actually voting "Keep", you are all voting to "Change the Topic" Yosemiter (talk) 18:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.