Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbara Knowles Debs


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) MrScorch6200  (talk &#124; ctrb) 04:19, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Barbara Knowles Debs

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She received the Fulbright Lifetime Achievement Medal, but I don't see sufficient notability. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:11, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete without prejudice - doesn't really seem to meet WP:PROF. I also suspect that the articles on the college and on prior presidents thereof could use some scrutiny for WP:NPOV and sourcing problems, as well as just plain notability issues. We may have a minor walled garden on our hands. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  03:21, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you rephrase your objection, I don't understand what NPOV issues you are referring to. I do not know what a "walled garden" means, is that about incoming links to the article from the institutions she was president of? I also don't see what PROF has to do with her, she was president of two institutions, not a professor at them. Can you also explain why you think the New York Times is an unreliable source. To be honest nothing you mention in your comment applies, it reads like a non sequitor. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 07:07, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see any signs of a walled garden here. The article on Knowles Debs is based on sources acknowledging both her work at the college and at the museum. The article on the university's current president was written 5 years before he got the job at Manhattanville. As for the article on Molly Easo Smith, it is based on a profile by the New York Times and two other solid sources. A few minutes ago, it didn't even have a wikilink to Manhattanville College so that should put your mind at rest. Pichpich (talk) 21:25, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, I get it, you are referring to the essay Walled garden, but I do not see that essay as policy for deletion. Of course articles in the same category link to each other, that should be obvious, but I do not see any advantage to linking people to Kevin Bacon just for the sake of having wider links. Her three or four incoming links are just fine for the reader. Articles only get flagged when they are orphans, without incoming links, and that has nothing to do with deletion policy. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:00, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep She was president of Manhattanville College, an institution 170 years old with about 2,700 students. I believe this meets WP:ACADEMIC #6. The Fulbright Medal adds to her notability, in my view. Since she's about 83 years old, promotional considerations are negligible. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  04:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep sufficient references to meet WP:GNG. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 06:13, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't see how the college could be considered a "major academic institution". The references, other than the Fulbright one, are little more than passing mentions that don't satisfy GNG. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:48, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * 5 facts from 5 different sources are mathematically identical to 5 facts from 1 source. How do we determine what is a "major academic institution" and what is a minor one. Academic institutions run from Harvard to your local community college, where is the line? Your argument also ignores her role as president of a museum. The references aren't "passing mentions" as in a list of people in a telephone directory, they are in-context concerning her career. People are not required to have pre-existing full biographies written about them to be notable, our job is to find notable people and synthesize a biography from the disparate sources. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 08:00, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:15, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:15, 11 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep- NYT article: "an art historian who is known for her financial acumen as president of Manhattanville College from 1975 to 1985" covered in two other paragraphs and additional articles there. While not the subject of the article, "'known' to the NYT", with detail in multiple paragraphs, should easily pass GNG. Dru of Id (talk) 15:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Easily passes the GNG with multiple non-trivial coverage in the New York Times. Similar coverage can be found in other sources such as or . Pichpich (talk) 16:47, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.