Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  19:52, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Article about company that spends most of its text discussing individual. Support for company is trivial and individual is NN. Mostly vanity based article. red dogsix (talk) 01:36, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete due to the reasons stated in nomination. Ceosad (talk) 20:25, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep because of the reasons stated in the following: Dschultz099 (talk) 11:09, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * My name is David Schultz and I am a college student at Belmont University. I was assigned a wikipedia related project in my Seminar class.  In order to fill this requirement, I elected to write about my stepfather's business.


 * I was unaware of the Conflict of Interest issue this would raise and that this might be a problem. I specially disclosed my relationship in the article--I was definitely not trying to hide it.


 * One other threshold matter. I would be fine changing the article header to Barry Lawrence Ruderman and de-emphasizing his business.


 * I chose my stepfather because his website impacts 10s of thousands of people and is very highly regarded in the academic world. While I do not have an exact count, I note that hundreds of his on line map images have been co-opted by others for use on wikipedia. When I asked him about this, he said he was aware that people were using his images and was fine with it, as his goal (and participation with the Rumsey Library at Stanford) is to make high resolution digital images of all of his maps available to the public (and freely downloadable) at no charge, which is one of the reasons he had chosen to work with Stanford. He is very passionate about making digital content freely available.  While it is true that his business is selling antique maps, he does not sell reproductions or digital copies of his material--it is always given away at no cost to anyone who asks.


 * the extent there are other problems with the article, I would be pleased to work on editing them, but thought it best to deal with this threshold issue first. My stepfather definitely merits consideration for a wikipedia article.  In the next several months, he will be finalizing a 20 year commitment to Stanford to fund a speaker series similar to the Nebenzahl lectures at the Newberry Library: https://www.newberry.org/kenneth-nebenzahl-jr-lectures-history-cartography.


 * He is also sponsoring a symposium in Austin, Texas on Texas History: http://www.glo.texas.gov/save-texas-history/symposium.html


 * I note that his close friend and colleague in the map world, David Rumsey, also has a wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey.Dschultz099 (talk) 11:09, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - Please demonstrate how any of this meets the requirements in WP:NN or WP:BIO.  red dogsix (talk) 20:42, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:11, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:11, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:11, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:11, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete as does not meet WP:ORG, a search does not bring up anything except non-notable blogs showing some of his maps, and sites discussing various fairs.Coolabahapple (talk) 23:06, 6 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment Dschultz099 (talk) 23:58, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps is without question the best known name in the Antique Map trade on a world wide basis. So, in terms of industry "fame", his is the biggest name by far in the world. There are 10s of thousands of antique map collectors world wide and 10s of thousands more enthusiasts who frequent his website for the descriptive content and illustrations. The website has been cited as one of the primary reference tools for map collectors and unquestionably, although there is no pricing guidance offered on the site, it has become the de factor barometer for valuation purposes.

Barry Lawrence Ruderman has created by far the largest on-line compendium of content rich description on antique maps. Here are just a few examples:

18th Century French Manuscript Map of Philadelphia (then capital of the US) http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/41303

Commanche Pictograph Map--acquired by the Library of Congress http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/34803op

First American Postal Map http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/40648

Early Honolulu: http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/35023

Rughesi's Asia: http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/33821

First Printed Plan of Any Planned Community In North America: http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/37576

The Military District of New Mexico: http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/39873

The Beaver Map http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/38663

Stephen F. Austin map of Texas: http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/33114

Hutchins Map http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/37434

Matteo Ricci Derivative Map http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/43034

Rev War Battle Plan http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/34474

Early Manuscript Map of California: http://www.raremaps.com/gallery/detail/33352

The name Barry Lawrence Ruderman appears in at least 13 Wikipedia articles, either as a quoted source, on line reference or similar citation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimiro_Castro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Fischer_%28cartographer%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_University_Libraries_Digital_Image_Collections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Speed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranau

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignace-Gaston_Pardies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_San_Miguel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kensett

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellersberger's_Map

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Santiago_%281585%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafiristan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totius_Graeciae_Descriptio

There appear to be at least 24 references to Barry Lawrence Ruderman on wikimedia.

The BLR archive of map descriptions is accessed thousands of times each day, which has led to the use of free use of BLR images, descriptions and other content on thousands of other website. All of this content is given away for free--there is never a charge or licensing fee associated with digital images or descriptions. No watermarks are added and, when asked, the same high resolution images given to Stanford are made available to the public for free.

Note WP:Bio

- Any biography The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field.

1. Barry Lawrence Ruderman is the Leading Antique Map Dealer in the World

2. He is recognized for revolutionizing the Sale of Antique Maps On Line

3. Stanford recognizes and advertises as part of its permanent collection the Barry Lawrence Ruderman Collection of Digital Images

4. He hosts over 40,000 often content rich descriptions of Antique Maps on-line, representing 19 years of published research.

5. Raremaps.com is almost certainly the most visited and relied upon website in the world for map collectors, dealers and other map enthusiasts.

6. There are well over 1,000 independent on line references to the descriptions and images published on RareMaps.com. At last count, my it was estimated that over 5,000 separate "permissions" had been granted to use images for books, magazines, doctoral theses, blogs, websites, etc. and there are hundreds if not thousands more "unauthorized" (but not unwelcomed) uses of descriptions, images, etc.

Academics Main page: Wikipedia:Notability (academics)

“Many scientists, researchers, philosophers and other scholars (collectively referred to as "academics" for convenience) are notably influential in the world of ideas without their biographies being the subject of secondary sources.”

--See numbered list above

Creative professionals: Authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals:

“The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors.”

--See numbered list above

“The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique.”

--He is the first major on line retailer and by far the largest research content provider.

“The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.”

--Stanford University Libraries: " The Ruderman Collection gives scholars access to materials that might otherwise be unseen as they pass between private hands." https://library.stanford.edu/collections/barry-lawrence-ruderman-collection

See also WWW-Virtual Library: History Map History / History of Cartography: THE Gateway to the Subject http://www.maphistory.info/imagelarge.html

--You will note that Barry Lawrence Ruderman listed along with many of the top National Collections (Library of Congress, American Geographical Society Library, Boston Public Library, British Library, Oxford Digital Library, etc., as "Large general sites" for digital images. No other dealer is on this list and only one other private person is on the list (David Rumsey) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey_Historical_Map_Collection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rumsey

“The person's work (or works) either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums.”

Major Clients Include (this is a small sampling):

Library of Congress Geography & Map Division Yale / Beinecke Library Stanford University British Library John Carter Brown Library (Brown University) Princeton University New York Publc Library Canadian National Archive Bibliothèque nationale de France University of Michigan Clements Library

http://www.nelsonstar.com/news/125108118.html

http://drs.library.yale.edu/HLTransformer/HLTransServlet?stylename=yul.ead2002.xhtml.xsl&pid=beinecke:hickok&clear-stylesheet-cache=yes

"CarteMuseum.org/resources.html -- Museum is a non-profit cartographic museum located in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and is dedicated to the preservation, study, and exhibition of original maps and atlases.

We are listed in the Research Laboratories of Archaeology under "Repositories and Web Sites" http://rla.unc.edu/emas/abbrev.html

Here is an example of a typical on line image citation from the Spurlock Museum at the University of Illinois: http://www.spurlock.illinois.edu/search/details.php?a=1989.11.0025

Cornell/Persuasive Cartography: Another Link: https://persuasivemaps.library.cornell.edu/links

Dschultz099 (talk) 23:58, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete for now and 'draft and userfy to author until it is better as my searches found a few links at Books, News and browser but nothing to suggest better at this time. SwisterTwister   talk  07:22, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete: Obvious coatrack is obvious. Mr. Schultz makes a great many assertions that he doesn't back up with reliable sources, and keeps on confusing the ostensible subject with Mr. Ruderman.  Considering the bits of WP:BIO he's citing to back this up, he's missing the point: Ruderman isn't CREATING these maps, he's acquiring and selling them.  "Barry Lawrence Ruderman Collection of Digital Images" isn't the subject of this article either, whatever Stanford allegedly thinks about it.  While Mr. Schultz is gracious enough to disclose COI, I think this goes a bit deeper than familial ties: "We are listed in the Research Laboratories of Archaeology under "Repositories and Web Sites""  "We?"  Nha Trang  Allons! 19:58, 8 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.