Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barry Saul


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sam Walton (talk) 13:54, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Barry Saul

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Non-notable local politician. Saul holds a position as a county councillor, with no evidence of ever having held any more significant office. He is the current chairperson (Irish: Cathaoirleach) of the council, but this is a year long ceremonial office with no extra powers. Saul is a standard county councillor doing standard county councillor things, and has not received any national coverage relating to him, which would make him notable. Snappy (talk) 17:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Snappy (talk) 17:56, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Snappy (talk) 17:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment Saul is the elected political head of a county council with a population of 206,261, the office has statutory powers which are dealt with in  | Section 31, of the Local Government Act, 2001. He presides over an organisation with a budget of over €100m and employs over 500 staff. The authority holds tax raising powers over 80,000 households. His office is not insignificant. Quirinus X (talk) 11:50, 12 June 2015
 * You are incorrect, its the Chief executive (or county manager) Owen Keegan who presides over the administration of the DLR county council. The chairperson of the council chairs the monthly council meetings, attends various openings and events, and wears the ceremonial chain of office for a year. He/she has no extra powers than an ordinary councillor, and certainly has no statutory powers. It has been established on wikipedia that city or county councillors are not inherently notable by virtue of their office and that includes chairs, they must meet additional criteria, which is not evident here. Snappy (talk) 18:40, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Owen Keegan is actually chief executive of Dublin City Council and the position of county manager has been abolished Snappy. DLR actually has a budget of upwards of €160m Quirinus X. Recent changes to local government empower the Chairperson (Irish: Cathaoirleach) to preside over all meetings during their term of office and have enhanced their agenda setting powers, I'm not sure Snappy is fully up to speed on latest arrangements. However size does matter, I would argue the chair of smaller councils might not warrant an article, but Dun Laoghaire is one of the largest in Ireland by population and revenue on that basis Keep Reggiegal (talk) 00:17, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm quite up to speed on recent developments in local government. I mentioned "county manager" as this was what the head of the council administration was known as until last year. The chairperson always presided over meetings so that's not a new power, and as far the "agenda setting powers", that's mere political window dressing. Saul is just taking "Buggins turn" as chair until some one else takes over next year, and so on. Snappy (talk) 18:31, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 07:49, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Local politician lacking the amount of sources needed to demonstate notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. County councillor is not an office that gives a person an automatic WP:NPOL pass just because they exist — and the sourcing here is entirely of the primary variety, with none of the reliable and independent kind to get him over WP:GNG instead. Bearcat (talk) 18:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment Saul isn't just a county councillor, he is Chairperson of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County County Council the office is notable, just like |Lord Mayor of Dublin City Council Reggiegal (talk) 02:01, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: Nope. Chairperson of a county council counts for nothing more than any other county council seat does — the only possible path to getting him an article on Wikipedia is to source it well enough to get him past WP:GNG on the basis of the volume of media coverage present in the article as written, because the office itself cannot pass any NPOL criterion except #3 (which is entirely conditional on the quality of sourcing, and never gives anybody a "just because they exist" freebie.) But this article, as written, contains no valid reliable sourcing — it's entirely primary — and thus it's sitting exactly nowhere on the GNG scale. Bearcat (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JAaron95  &#40; Talk &#41;  16:19, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - For some unknown reason I actually thought this was related to Better Call Saul but obviously not, Well unlike that Saul this Saul has no evidence of notability at all so will have to say Delete. – Davey 2010 Talk 17:04, 25 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.