Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Kock (1944)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Black Kite (t) (c) 15:15, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Kock (1944)

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As noted on Talk:Battle of Kock (1944), this substub has no claim of notability, and a review of sources in Polish and English yields next to no indicators that it could become a notable subject. I am an inclusionist, but I simply see no proof that this battle occurred, not to mention that it was a notable skirmish. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 19:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  —Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk  19:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. There's hardly anything in this article at all. What's to delete?  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 22:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete I could find no reliable sources in English, and if Piotr can't find anything in Polish, I conclude that this "battle" probably never happened, or was trivial if it did.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  23:34, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete <1KB for almost a month - needs expanding and some notability to keep - given that the original contributor couldn't find enough to add, perhaps there is nothing more to add.  Ma &reg;&copy; usBr iti sh [talk] 03:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 00:54, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - I looked for sources for this article when Piotrus first prod-ed it, but could find nothing, and I trust Piotrus's expertise on Polish sources. Parsecboy (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Keep

Whats the big problem? I said it was on the articles waiting to be created in the millitary history page, theres many stub articles on here and theres nothing wrong with them. Besides you guys are from Poland - why not visit the archives? Thats how i find information; you cant always rely on the internet.

And anyway think about it logically there must of been some kind of battle there, its not far off Warsaw and its strategic position is perfect - try going to the archives in Warsaw and it might be there. Goldblooded (talk) 17:30, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - subject appears to lack "signficant coverage" in reliable sources and is therefore likely not notable under WP:GNG. IMO its not that there wasn't fighting in Kock in 1944, there likely was as indeed our article on Operation Tempest suggests, its whether or not this was significant enough to warrant an article of its own. At this stage without sources to back it up I don't think it was. Of course if new works become available that cover the events in detail then I would support recreation without prejudice. Archival material would probably constitute OR and would not be enough to establish notability on their own. Anotherclown (talk) 21:13, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Depends what kind of archival materiel. Maybe there is some book or journal article in Polish on that subject, published locally but reliably, and available in the local library. I've seen this happen. But till somebody can locate it, well, we cannot assume it exists. And I don't know of any Wikipedian from Kock; if Goldblooded really cares, I'd suggest asking on the talk page of the town (in English and Polish) to see if there is any local editor who could research it further. I am certainly not going to fly to Poland to research this, and I don't see Goldblooded volunteering to do this, either :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 21:53, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment

I would happily look for it myself and go to the place in question (Warsaw and/or Kock since there has to be a local library or archive there, although it wouldnt be that simple and it wouldnt be cheap either), Besides i thought you lived there? Maybe we could find a wikipedian from Warsaw because i already said there must be some kind of archival building there and they could take a look if there in that area. Anyway ill ask around where i can. But as ive said there must of been something that happened there because of a major battle there in '39 and it isnt far off Warsaw where the uprisings began. Goldblooded (talk) 11:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete I found but one brief mention of this action and there is not really enough information for an informative article. Darkness Shines (talk) 11:13, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - That reference is for the Battle of Kock (1939). -- Whpq (talk) 19:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Response

You guys clearly havent listend to what im saying, From time to time it helps to get out once in a while ; Dont always rely on the internet, ive uncovered tons of information (Im currently writing a book on the change in British society from 1940 - 1970) about my local area and about the political and social changes that occured in world politics and so on that i could never even dream of finding on the interent , and its more plausible to find information from a library of a archive (preferably in Poland itself and if i get a chance i will fly there to find it out myself if nobody is going to compromise.) Goldblooded (talk) 19:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - What sources lead you to believe that there was a "Battle of Kock" in 1944 that was part of Operation Tempest? I agree that there is more in the world of reference material than that which can be found on the Internet.  However, per verifiability, one of the fundamental policies of Wikipedia, we need sources to verify that there was even such a battle.  That an editor added an item to a list of articles to be created in a Wikiproject does not excuse it from needing references. -- Whpq (talk) 19:53, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.