Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of Sliva


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was nomination withdrawn (non-admin closure). —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 03:43, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Sliva

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  Stats )

I can't find any sources about this battle, and the one reference is decidedly vague. Searching inside this source from its Google Books entry reveals no matches for either "battle" or "Sliva" (though I realise this isn't the most reliable metric). —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 08:19, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. It seems to be an important historical event, one of the two which ended the Macedonian 1903 uprising and the Krusevo Republic. I found the Macedonian interwiki, added a reference in Macedonian (as a Russian speaker, I understand what is in the article I referenced to), and there are clearly more sources available.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:45, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you post the reference here? It doesn't matter if it isn't in English. Best —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 09:23, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * http://www.mn.mk/istorija/4664 --Ymblanter (talk) 10:44, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Thus site:http://www.mn.mk is extreme nationalistic and biased POV - source. We need a reliable reference. Jingiby (talk) 11:03, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This is irrelevant, but if you want, well - http://www.tourmacedonia.mk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=141&Itemid=257, http://star.vest.com.mk/default.asp?id=56961&idg=3&idb=783&rubrika=Makedonija , http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=A0C6573181C5F344930EF2ADE95361EA , http://www.promacedonia.org/ilpr1968/ilpr1968_3.html (note that they just reprint a book), http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=0D78321957D31546ADB27AC52E71AC56 --Ymblanter (talk) 11:10, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete or Merge to Krushevo Republic . No reliable sources. Biased POV. Not significant. The IMRO was Bulgarian organization. Jingiby (talk) 11:19, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not care about Bulgarians vs Macedonians frictions, or Macedonians vs Greeks, but the book I added to the article is a reliable source. If you are not happy with the sources, please find ones yourself or/and work on the article if you think it is non-neutral.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:27, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the sources you provided above - they prove that this event did actually happen, if I am reading the Google translations correctly. Unfortunately, I can't seem to access the page of the book you reference - would you mind providing a short quotation from it that shows the nature of its coverage about the battle of Sliva? This will be a great help in deciding whether this particular battle is notable enough to have its own article, I think. Sorry about all the trouble. Best regards —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 18:35, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I can not access all pages of the book, but from what I understand, this part describes a monument (a crypt) which has memory plates devoted to important events of Macedonian history. One of the events is "Sliva". The quotation is "There are two places which contribute their particular symbolic power to the crypt. <...> Sliva, on the other side of the town, was where the ceta of Todor Hristov, also referred to as Todor the Officer, was wiped out by the Ottoman army. Whereas Pitu Guli's men were mostly villagers, Todor Hristov's ceta was composed of townspeople. <...> These two events of the story combine to give Sliva particular prominense in Krusevo itself, even though the story of Meckin Kamen is better known in the country at large." The event is dated as 1903, so that it must be the same as in the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  — Frankie (talk) 18:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Macedonia-related deletion discussions.  — Frankie (talk) 18:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  — Frankie (talk) 18:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep - it is not disputed that this battle occurred, nor that it is notable. It may need cleanup, addition of extra sources, or other actions, but none of these actions require deletion or a deletion debate. Let's get away from our WP:Systemic Bias, people ! Just because this is little known to the English-speaking world doesn't mean we should shunt it away ! Buckshot06 (talk) 20:55, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I nominated this because I was not sure from the reference listed, or from my searches online, that this battle had actually occurred at all. Its occurrence and notability were both very much in dispute. Still, I see that enough coverage exists for it to pass the notability guidelines, so I am withdrawing my nomination. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 03:43, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Does appear to be notable enough. -- Necrothesp (talk) 23:33, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.