Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battle of the Birds


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. --BDD (talk) 18:56, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Battle of the Birds

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Purported baseball rivalry with no reliable sources attesting to such a rivalry. PROD was contested. Whpq (talk) 03:17, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Though its not as attractive and well documented as Yankees-Red Sox or Giants-Dodgers, these teams do play eachother, especially given the Orioles and Blue Jays both at in the AL East. The two teams have played hundreds of games between eachother, so I feel it should be kept.  174.236.104.166 (talk) 03:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * also the three teams will be playing interleague games between eachother, so this rivalry is not as trivial as you think.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Missouri-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - a three-way rivalry where (according to the article), "the only real history is between the Orioles and the Cardinals". The article contradicts its own premise. As for coverage, there are a handful of passing mentions in various ESPN blogs and articles but nothing rising to the level of "significant coverage". Interestingly, there are other references to "Battle[s] of the Birds" in various sporting contexts - basically wherever a "bird team" plays another. Stalwart 111  03:50, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Just because these teams occasionally play each other doesn't make it a rivalry.. Article has no sources, and a google search doesnt turn up anything on this term "Battle of the Birds" as relating to these three teams. Article, what there is of it, is entirely original research. Spanneraol (talk) 05:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable and original research. jni (talk) 06:09, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep, though it look like the article doesn't stand a chance. I've started a discussion on the tAlk:Major League Baseball rivalries page to discuss how to handle this in peace. Zoozle102 (talk) 10:10, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Given an informal talk page discussion is unlikely to trump a formal AFD, you're probably best having that discussion here. I, for one, would be happy to discuss it with you in greater detail. For a start, I can certainly accept that the concept isn't something you made up one day, but we still need more than a handful of passing mentions to establish notability. Stalwart 111  10:57, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. Seems interesting.  Have there been any notable games between the Os and Jays? 15:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 174.255.113.170 (talk)
 * Comment - What reliable sources have documented this rivalry. There's a lot of books written about baseball.  I was unable to find a single one that even mentioned this rivalry. -- Whpq (talk) 16:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * maybe we can improve the article and make it notable. Just find a couple of good sources.  174.255.113.170 (talk) 18:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've already looked and found none. I would not have submitted this for deletion if I were able to find sources.  Are you able to provide any? -- Whpq (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * In terms of notable players, we have Pat Hentgen who played for all three teams. Not much to go on but this could be a start.  208.54.87.167 (talk) 19:55, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Lots of players have played for multiple teams... that doesn't make the teams rivals and it doesnt make this term meaningful. Spanneraol (talk) 20:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * What we need are sources which cover the rivalry in signficant detail. Providing Pat Hentgen's stats just proves that Hentgen pitched for the Jays, Cardinals, and Orioles.  It makes no statements about any rivalry.  To pick an obvious example, you can find plenty of significant coverage about the Yankees vs. Red Sox rivalry.  In fact, entire books are devoted to it. We don't need entire books to establish notability, but it must be something more than passing mentions and blogs. -- Whpq (talk) 20:57, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete Orioles/Jays is one of the lesser AL East rivalries, while O's/Cardinals hasn't really happened; the Orioles pretty much downplay their history as the St. Louis Browns and that 'rivalry' is mainly notable as a nostalgic curiosity for older fans and history buffs, while Jays/Cardinals is about as routine a interleague series as you can get, interesting for a bit, but like a Marlins/Royals series, nobody but the teams and local fans really care about that one. Not really much here but WP:OR.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 20:53, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge to Major League Baseball rivalries. Article seems too trivial to have its own page.  174.226.128.161 (talk) 20:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - What sources exists to even show that a rivalry exists to justify a merge? -- Whpq (talk) 21:06, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Humorous Keep. Some editors take this notability stuff too seriously.  The page is clearly harmless and besides, there are many obscure people that have survived this deletion forum.  The rivalry exists because the clubs are birds of a different feather. 64.134.242.172 (talk) 22:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * what do you think about writing about the Red Sox-White Sox rivalry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.242.172 (talk)
 * I'm starting to think that all these IP users who keep commenting are the same person.Spanneraol (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree, which is why I added the template at the top. Doesn't matter, though, because none of them are making policy-based arguments and AFD is determined by consensus and strength of argument, not a vote-count. So he/she/they are wasting their time. Stalwart 111  00:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * how about this game? 67.217.136.210 (talk) 12:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * What of it? -- Whpq (talk) 13:17, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * you want sources right? if we find enough mlb coverge in the matchups it should be okay.  MLB.com is a reliable source.  67.217.136.210 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 14:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * No, not just random articles about random games involving two of the three teams. We need significant coverage of the rivalry itself - it's origins, history, social and cultural impact, etc. Links to rutine coverage of regular games is fairly pointless. Stalwart 111  14:26, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete as WP:MADEUP. Although the term is often used when the mentioned teams play each other or are otherwise compared (see, , ) but there is no longstanding, notable rivalry as claimed by the article.  The term has also been used to describe games in Australian rules football  and rugby .    78.26   (I'm no IP, talk to me!) 14:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * DeleteWhat does the source above have to do with a rivalry? The person who made this article is trying to make excuses why this is a "rivalry".Clecol99 (talk) 20:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete No reliable sources seem to support the notion that any such rivalries exist, or that the title term is used to indicate any such rivalry. Nwlaw63 (talk) 00:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep and rewrite. In sports a battle of the birds refers to a match between two teams named after birds.  In the NFL this can refer to a game between the Ravens, Seahwaks, Eagles and Falcons.  In the NBA you have the Pelicans and Hawks.  70.208.67.58 (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - The phrase is indeed used as pointed above in another comment. But is there anything more than a dictionary definition?  Sport journalists like to add a bit of colorful language, but this phrase does not represent anat actual topic with significant coverage. -- Whpq (talk) 22:48, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not actual rivalries recognized by any major reliable sources. Just because teams play each other does not make them rivals. Besides, "battles of the birds" would merit just as much notability as an "Indian Rivalry" (Braves vs. Indians?).  Zappa  O  Mati   01:17, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 174.226.64.91 (talk) 13:40, 24 September 2013 (UTC)


 * That the article was edited in the meantime is not a valid relisting rationale in the face of fairly overwhelming consensus. I've asked that this AFD be closed. Stalwart 111  14:50, 24 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Unsourced Original research. — X96lee15 (talk) 13:52, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - Reminds me of topical collecting of postage stamps... Not an encyclopedic topic. Carrite (talk) 15:55, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.