Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battlefield 2142 Vehicles


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  Sandstein  05:52, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Battlefield 2142 Vehicles

 * – ( View AfD View log )

WP:GNG no independent secondary coverage  The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 00:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Pros and cons
Before beginning, it is important to know that this article is new and thus under construction. PLUS, the game this article is related to is old (according to todays gaming standards) which means that not alot of players are currently active or remembering enough details of the game to contribute to this article.

Now the list

Pros :
 * 1) This article is a review on an important topic of a listed game of the game portal
 * 2) This article is clear and detailed
 * 3) This article supports the topic with images
 * 4) This article cites references
 * 5) This article is under construction and will be supported soon by more sources and more images

Cons :
 * 1) This article was written mostly by a single author
 * 2) This article doesn't present the under construction template
 * 3) This article currently doesn't have enough sources or images to be perfectly reliable

Solutions :
 * 1) Give some time to the author to improve the article
 * 2) Merge the article with its main article (Battlefield 2142) making it easier for other people to review it
 * 3) Delete the article

As the main author of this article and ex-expert player of Battlefield 2142, I would vote for the first two solutions which are, I think, closer to the guidlines of wikipedia. These solutions would also give time to other users who know the game to support this article with their own knowledge.

Please comment

If you have any questions related to Battlefield 2142 or more precisely about Battlefield 2142 Vehicles, please feel free to contact me directly on my talk page.

Offiikart (Talk)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions.  MrKIA11 (talk) 05:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Please also consider before voting taking a decision
''As I see it, without the possible exception for the gunship description, there is nothing in there that gives precise specs on the vehicles nor than their place in the game or usage during a match. This is clearly not a how to guide on when, where or how to use the vehicles. The gunship specs description is an exception and is there because it is important to give a reason on why there are so many complaints on this vehicle in Internet litterature. This is only a short descriptive article on an important topic of bf2142.'' -- Offiikart (Talk) 14:25, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Votes Discussion
In terms of Wikipedia policy, to my mind the question is whether this is content better suited to Wikia, to be placed pod-inserted into the Battlefield Wikia, here), or whether it should just be mirrored there and this article allowed to stand for the same reasons countless other similar types of articles are (Watchmen, again). To the article author:  This content should also be placed at Battlefield Wikia, which seems to be much heavier on the "modern warfare" installments and less detailed on 2142. Edwin Herdman (talk) 10:40, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I will take the time to place this content on BF wikia -- Offiikart (Talk) 14:21, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete WP is not a game guide, and the character analogy doesn't hold up here. For character lists, these are there for multi-part, serialized works or franchises, where there is a great deal of fiction and mythos that can be distilled down to explain the characters and often back by third party sources to explain their development and reception. This is a list of in-game weapons and vehicles for a single game, none having anywhere near the volume of fiction backing them. --M ASEM (t) 12:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment, leaning towards a deletion and slight expansion of main article texts. I agree that Wikipedia is not a game guide, and my intention is to make the subject comprehensible to readers, but not overburden it with minutae:  Game tanks and walkers aren't like real life or anime tanks and mecha.  Regardless of the current form of the article, the "not a game guide" policy does not provide a blanket objection to these sorts of articles, for exactly the reasons a list of characters may be appropriate.  I have to agree it is excessive for the purposes of Wikipedia, but I feel I should expand my analysis of the situation for establishing such articles can be useful:  The important point you bring up, that of "fiction and mythos...distilled down to explain" brings me back to my original point of comparison.  Watchmen is not an exact comparison, but proves useful again, partly because it is a sufficiently original, alien setting; partly because the actual subjects are is considered notable.  Now, I would argue that the Battlefield franchise's (and the Unreal Tournament's) handling of vehicles has been significant to the history of video games, and it does have a large impact on the public.  Yet in order to qualify for its own article, the concepts need to be foreign enough to require further description.  The "you can immediately drive anything" model of Battlefield (and Unreal Tournament, again) is not a point in favor of this being a topic requiring more detailed description - in fact the point worth mentioning (as with Codename Eagle or Battlefield 1942) of interest to the general reader is that this was different from the usual games of this era.  I would argue that one can probably find quite a bit of attention being paid to the vehicles, but that's maybe half of the required criteria...and even this is sketchy at best.  A good point of comparison:  The articles for Unreal Tournament 2003 and 3 have very short (perhaps too short) sections on vehicles that perhaps could discuss in more depth some of the fundamental characteristics of how they behave, their impact on gameplay, and their impact on the world at large (if it can be demonstrated sufficiently well) - but adding all this (supposing sources can be found) would only be a few sentences, possibly less than my comment here!  So the new direction for the main Battlefield article should be:  How are vehicles different, and what is the overall impact on the game design (balancing, new gameplay opportunities - Titan already mentioned, pod launching from APCs should be as well because that's different from the usual first person shooter)?  If anything this cries out for some quotes from the developers and the community reception.  Did any balance issues affect the BF2142 community?  Edwin Herdman (talk) 03:57, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 13:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 13:20, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - per WP:GAMEGUIDE. If anything the content can be trimmed and merged with Battlefield 2142. --Teancum (talk) 13:47, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep, Merge I understand M ASEM 's and Teancum's point and agree on the fact that WP is not a game guide. This article is not really appropriate by itself BUT the informations presented in this article are necessary to understand and win an in-game match because 50-80% of BF2142 maps are based on vehicle play. Information should be retained and moved to main article. -- Offiikart (Talk) 14:21, 15
 * We're not here to tell people how to beat a game. The main article should give enough flavor to understand the general types of vehicles the game employs (particularly set in the future), but specifics of how certain vehicles behave or the like is completely inappropriate. --M ASEM (t) 15:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you give some examples of what part of this article is more than a simple basic description of the different vehicles? As I see it, without the possible exception for the gunship description, there is nothing in there that gives precise specs on the vehicles nor than their place in the game or usage during a match. This is clearly not a how to guide on when, where or how to use the vehicles. The gunship specs description is an exception and is there because it is important to give a reason on why there are so many complaints on this vehicle in Internet litterature. This is only a short descriptive article on an important topic of bf2142. -- Offiikart (Talk) 16:41, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Weak delete because Wikipedia is not a game guide. The game itself of course is worth an article, but details on how to play the game belong on a gaming wiki, not Wikipedia. J I P  &#124; Talk 18:47, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Please take a look at section 1.2 which is a copy of my comment on M ASEM comment. -- Offiikart  (Talk) 16:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - The topic has not received significant coverage from reliable sources. Community sites and forums are not reliable publications. Lists of gameplay items are not appropriate in game articles, let alone separate articles. Delete on the basis of WP:N, WP:V and WP:VGSCOPE. Marasmusine (talk) 10:12, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete: The subject of the article, a list of fictional vehicles from a video game, falls into what Wikipedia is not since Wikipedia is not a video game guide. That alone makes the article inappropriate, but the fictional vehicles also do not meet general notability guideline and the content is plot-only description of a fictional work. With no reliable third-party sources that address the list, there is no presumption that it should have a stand alone article. Jfgslo (talk) 14:49, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Based on the two last comments which both say that it should not have a stand alone article: can a Delete be done by merging the content of this article into the main one? I know I repeat myself but the informations presented there are of great importance to understand the game, why it was played and why peoples stopped playing. Thanks for your comments --[[Image:Flag of Quebec.svg|20px]] Offiikart  (Talk) 00:02, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it can, but it has to be condensed to provide not so much in-universe detail about the vehicles. A listing of vehicles as such is OK. J I P  &#124; Talk 17:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If the other users who have given their opinion here are in agreement with this option, I am willing to do this as soon as I'm allowed to. --[[Image:Flag of Quebec.svg|20px]] Offiikart  (Talk) 19:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't mind the vehicles being discussed in the game's article, in the form of prose not a list, providing it gives real-world context. For example: the opinions of game reviewers on specific vehicles. IGN talk about the grav-tank. Such content should naturally form part of the Gameplay and Critical Reception sections anyway. Marasmusine (talk) 12:31, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Final Decision
I greatly reduced the size of the article on my last edit today and tried to follow the helpful comments you guys did. I consider the information left there as important and it should not be to much precise in the how to way that made it inappropriate. Please comment this new version and if everything looks good I'll merge it in the main BF2142 article under the section Vehicles. If it still doesn't pass the test I'll let it go and ask for its deletion. -- Offiikart  (Talk) 14:02, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.