Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bay and Basin FM


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Stifle (talk) 08:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Bay and Basin FM

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This article about a community radio station has no third party sources attesting to notability. Grahame (talk) 11:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.   —Grahame (talk) 11:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions.   —Grahame (talk) 11:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete I've found no reliable sources online so fails WP:NOTABILITY. Bidgee (talk) 11:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete With 32 unique Google hits and no news/books hits whatsoever, this is apparantly extremely obscure and unlikely to be covered by reliable sources. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  12:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Licenced radio stations are always considered notable. This station holds licence 1150818 from the Australian Communications and Media Authority for the Sanctuary Point service area, pursuant to a decision dated 5 May 2006. http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/main/lib100052/lic007_community_of_interest.pdf --Eastmain (talk) 15:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone here is debating whether they paid their licence fee or not. What we're looking for here is claims of notability, and even more importantly reliable sources with which an article can be formed. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  15:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. OUTCOMES states:
 * Licensed radio and TV stations are notable if they broadcast over the air and originate at least a portion of their programming schedule in their own studios. Lower power radio stations limited to a small neighborhood, such as Part 15 operations in the United States or stations with a VF# callsign in Canada, are not inherently notable, although they may be kept if some real notability can be demonstrated. Stations that only rebroadcast the signal of another station should be redirected to their programming source (e.g. CICO-TV is a redirect to TVOntario.) --Eastmain (talk) 16:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The above is only for US and Canada stations. This is an Australian station and the license is only a piece of paper so they can broadcast which doesn't make then notable automatically and this article fails Notability. Bidgee (talk) 16:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. Refer recent discussion at Articles for deletion/3XX which resulted in deletion of an article on a licensed but utterly unnotable station. Murtoa (talk) 13:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment to above. The general presumption is that if a licensed broadcast radio station has been around for a while, the WP:RS sources will likely be found eventually (inherent notability and precedent). That is usually a good enough place to start. Thanks to Eastmain's efforts, I'm inclined toward keep, especially if history can be shown. • Gene93k (talk) 16:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep DeleteInadequate evident it satisfies notability. There is no inherent notability for low power community radio stations, which in some cases are part-time hobby activities of a few people with no press coverage and no demonstrated impact on their communities. I see too little information in the references to make the case that this one broadcasts over the air to a respectable coverage area. There is no statement of broadcast power or the antenna height or the coverage area, just a directory listing that it has a license as a community broadcaster and unreferenced claims that it has listeners in certain places. I did not see evidence that it broadcasts a regular schedule of locally originated programming, unless it is buried in the stations website. I see no newspaper coverage of its activities. Perhaps someone can find such information and add reliable sources before the 5 day AFD period is up. I have seen some notable and some non-notable community or low power radio stations. I do not see the evidence that this one is notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. Edited to add: The station's website shows that it broadcasts with 100 watts of radiated power, which should be sufficient to provide a strong signal to a respectable coverage area for several miles around, depending on terrain and antenna. The website also demonstrates that it has a daily schedule of locally originated programming, and that it does several remote broadcasts a month of community activities. It also has a number of advertisers. I am changing my "Delete" to a "Keep" on the basis that it is a licensed broadcast station with a regular schedule of locally originated programming and sufficient radiated power to cover the communities it is licensed to serve. It is far more significant than a part time hobby operation with a few watts of output or a mere relay station rebroadcasting programming originating elsewhere. I would still like to see coverage by newspapers. Edison (talk) 19:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:N as far as I can tell due to a lack of third-party coverage. Lankiveil (speak to me) 00:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC).
 * Keep I have added a few sources, and added the radio station template. I live near the broadcast area and can verify that the articles' claim of reception between Gerringong and Ulladulla is true. How would you integrate this source into the article. The license area map which I have added as a source gives an indication of the areas that the station is licensed to serve, however like all radio stations there is some coverage beyond these boundaries. Station is very notable in its local community, as mentioned on the Bay and Basin forum. More ghits are found when searching from Google Australia. Hope this is enough to stave off deletion for now. Nerdluck34 (talk) 11:29, 6 September 2008 (UTC).
 * Sorry but you can't add original research and Bay and Basin forum can't be used for it's notability and isn't a reliable source. Bidgee (talk) 12:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep This radio station "was allocated a permanent licence by the Australian Communications and Media Authority on 12 May 2006" for coverage of a specific rural area of NSW - Jervis Bay and associated small towns. As a 24/7 broadcaster, the station itself is a notable source of news and information for its community. I found 273 Google hits for "Bay & Basin FM" which would seem to indicate it has some notability in its own community. Reliable Secondary references are not always available to indicate notability. I think this article should be kept.--Takver (talk) 14:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment, of those 273 Google hits, how many are either just mirrors of this article, or only mention the station in an offhand manner? Also, if there are no reliable secondary references available to indicate notability, then it most probably isn't notable.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC).
 * Comment, The radio station is unlikely to have easily available reliable secondary references (ie primarily newspaper stories) because it operates in a primarily rural area with limited newspaper coverage - the South Coast Register based at the town of Nowra appears to be the closest local paper online covering the area. I think it highly likely, given the permanence of the radio station and the 18 year history of the Bay and Basin Community Resources Inc community organisation (which does have several secondary refs in the South Coast Register by the way) that secondary references do exist for the radio station and will eventually turn up, Just because secondary references aren't available on the net, does not mean they do not exist.  --Takver (talk) 16:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I see that an article for Bay and Basin Community Resources exists, I am now suggesting a Merge into this article. It seems that the radio station on its own has very borderline notability according to your guidelines. Per Takver, BBCR has sufficient coverage in the South Coast Register, thus objectively satisfies WP:N. Nerdluck34 (talk) 02:28, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: I created the article for Bay and Basin Community Resources as it is a notable organisation in its local region with primary and secondary verifiable references. This opens the option that Bay and Basin FM can be merged with Bay and Basin Community Resources if the weight of consensus in this discussion is that it hasn't achieved sufficient notability in its own right. I still believe that Bay and Basin FM is notable and there is a high probability of verifiable secondary references coming to light with time. Deletion should not even be considered for this article now: but to decide between Keep and Merge. --Takver (talk) 02:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep: The station is not notable nationally, but it is very notable within the towns of its region (Shoalhaven area). It doesn't matter whether the station has paid for its license. The fact it is a licensed broadcaster means it is a permanent fixture providing a permanent service to the region. There are not very many other broadcasters in a regional area like this, increasing this one's notability. Local radio will rarely if ever be mentioned in national metro newspapers, but this article has references from Federal Government committees, the Communication and Media Authority, local Shoalhaven guides, and the local council website. It's commercial rival, radio 2ST Nowra has an article.-- Lester  05:23, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment, the only mention I've found from a federal government committee is a submission made by the station itself, included in the minutes of their report. As it's routine for any and all submissions to be included in the official record, I don't believe that you can really use that to assert notability.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:40, 9 September 2008 (UTC).


 * Keep per Lester and per WP:NOT. JRG (talk) 02:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.