Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Before the Dawn (band)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 04:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Before the Dawn (band)

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No assertion of notability. The article was previously just a discography. The addition of a history makes the article encyclopedic, but I can't find any notability. Ichibani utc 17:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, no notability asserted, fails WP:MUSIC. Ten Pound Hammer  • (((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps))) 18:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, per above. Jauerback 18:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 *  Speedy delete Keep A7 . Fails WP:BAND as written. -- Flyguy649 talk contribs 18:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed my speedy recommendation per Tony Fox's comments. However as written, the article still is deletable. If there are additions and an assertion of notability, I'll change to keep.-- Flyguy649 talk contribs 04:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added the links I came up with through my search. Tony Fox (arf!) review? 05:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tony. Changed to keep. Flyguy649 talk contribs 05:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Although I believe this article was created in good faith; no notability has been asserted nor anything to make it reliable, I would not say this meets this but I endorse the deletion here. Rlest 19:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Definitely not a speedy - surprisingly, I'm finding a bit of buzz about this band, even in English - I suspect there's probably more in languages I don't speak. A bio on Rockdetector that indicates they have toured with bands like Katatonia through Europe, a festival report with a piece on them from Finnish-Metal.net, a CD review on Gothtronic, and news items on bravewords.com - I'm not going to vouch for the excellence of any of those sites but Rockdetector, personally, but there they are. Their label, Locomotive Records, appears to have some rather notable bands involved, including Lillian Axe, Seven Witches and a few others (their news scroll had a mention of Bruce Dickinson, but I didn't catch it in time to see what that was about). I'm going to go against the grain and say  weak keep. Tony Fox (arf!) review? 20:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, per Tony Fox. Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 21:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Tony Fox. I am not familiar with the Finnish language, but the links above demonstrate fair notability in this case.  (jarbarf) 03:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I still don't see any indication of actual notability. There is still no assertion of notability made in the text of the article, and each of the sources and links now included in the article don't seem to establish notability under WP:MUSIC.  The references from bravewords do not satisfy it as they are simply trivial information (titles of tracks and dates of performances).  The Locomotive Records bio seems to be written by the band and is definitely not independant of the band (its one of their labels).  The rockdetector bio seems solid.  The Gothtronic review is certainly acceptable in terms of content, but I'm not entirely sure it's actually worthy of being called a reliable source and although I think I'd give it the benefit of the doubt here I'd really rather get something more reliable.  Not letting gothtronic slide, the article doesn't meet the WP:MUSIC requirement that "It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable"  I don't see any solid notability in english sources.  The article can probably exist just fine once someone goes through Finnish sources, but it is barely if at all able to provide content that is both encyclopedic and verifiable as is. Ichibani  utc 06:57, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think my assertion of notability under WP:MUSIC comes from the multiple albums on Locomotive, as well as the statements that the band has played international tours through Europe on at least one occasion, if not more. The fact that they've been discussed by several established sites gives me comfort that there's coverage for the band, especially when the discussion on those pages seems to indicate the band's creator has his own standalone notability. With a Scandinavian band, I think having this level of sources indicates there's probably more in their own language, but again, I can't confirm that. Tony Fox (arf!) review? 18:16, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't see why Locomotive is a major label. I suppose the international tour satisfies WP:MUSIC as long as we have a reliable source for it.  Bravewords does seem okay as a source, and though the article seems really trivial I suppose yielding to the guideline alright.  It's just critical to have some information about the tour added in, if that's what makes the band notable. Ichibani  utc 20:34, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Locomotive appears to be a fairly big indie label in Europe, and is distributing some big-time artists as mentioned above. The tour is being difficult - I've got mentions of lengthy tours in 2004, 2006 and 2007 with other bands, but I don't know if they would be really good as reliable sources. I may insert them into the article anyhow, as an indication that yes, they are touring extensively. But, failing that, would you accept a number-two single as filling yet another WP:MUSIC requirement? I've also found a bunch of non-English bios and refs, including one on mtv.de, and could quite happily pop those into the external links if they'd help ease your concerns. Tony Fox (arf!) review? 21:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * You've pretty much convinced me they're notable. Once the article reflects it I'll have no complaint at all.  I'll try to add a bit as well in a few hours. Ichibani  utc 22:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.