Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Behaviorology


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. The consensus of the editors here is to delete the article at this time. Since the creator has shown an interest creating a viable article, I have userfied this at his user page for improvement by interested parties. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  16:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Behaviorology

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

"Behaviorology" is already an uncommon term in the literature, and this article focuses on a fringe usage. Compare, e.g. versus. Melchoir (talk) 16:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Decibert:


 * Melchoir notified me that I needed to add citations so I rewrote the "Behaviorology" article to include quotations from several scholars who describe themselves as behaviorologists. Two of those scholars, Ernest Vargas and Lawrence Fraley, taught at West Virginia University and are now retired.  The third, Stephen Ledoux, is still teaching at the State University of New York at Canton.  See http://www.canton.edu/employee/ledoux/ and please note that the caption below Dr. Ledoux's photograph is "Behaviorology Professor."


 * I know all three of these men and I have sought the assistance of Lawrence Fraley and Stephen Ledoux to find references that I could cite when I rewrote the Behaviorology page.


 * To summarize what has been happening for the past several decades, Psychology sprouted a branch named Behavior Analysis. Then Behavior Analysis developed a fruit that matured and fell to the ground.  The seeds in that fruit sprouted into a separate discipline named Behaviorology.  Behaviorology is still a seedling but it is still growing.  It attracts people who, like B. F. Skinner, believe that behavioral science can be productively applied to solving personal and social problems.  The behaviorologists who live in the "cultural laboratory" named Los Horcones apply behaviorology to the management of their personal lives and their community on a daily basis.


 * I am not a scholar and I am not a member of Los Horcones. I am simply a member of the behaviorology movement.  I thought that it was important for Behaviorology to be described in Wikipedia.  I am doing my best to compose a Behaviorology article.  What else do I need to do to make the article conform to the Wikipedia guidelines?


 * Greg987 (talk) 18:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Basically the concern here is Verifiability as interpreted by Notability. "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." In the context of this article, it means the following: find at least two peer-reviewed journal articles (without Behaviorology in the journal title) or books by respected academic publishers (not ABCs); which discuss behaviorology's place in science; and which are not written by Vargas, Fraley, or Ledoux. These requirements would be easy to meet for any branch of science represented by a Wikipedia article that meets our content policies. I've started the AfD because I suspect that they can't be met, but I could be proven wrong. Melchoir (talk) 20:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Melchoir: Thank you for explaining what is needed. I will contact Drs. Fraley and Ledoux and other behaviorologists and tell them exactly what I need to satisfy the criteria that you have stated.  Please do not delete the Behaviorology page yet.  I am working on getting the kind of sources that you have requested.  Greg987 (talk) 21:11, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * IMO it's still worth deleting the present article, as its content would not be useful to anyone writing an article based on independent secondary sources. Even in the best case from your point of view, it would still have to be rewritten from scratch. But we shall see if the consensus on AfD agrees with me... Melchoir (talk) 23:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Melchoir: The website of Comunidad de los Horcones contains an paragraph that summarizes Behaviorology (see the following paragraph). That paragraph is part of an article that was published in The Behavior Analyst, a peer-reviewed publication of the Association for Behavior Analysis International.  See http://www.abainternational.org/Store/journaldesc.asp?pid=3517&strJournalType=tba  Can I quote and cite that article?


 * "Behaviorology encompasses basic research, applied research and philosophy. Basic research includes (a) descriptive analysis of behavior (behaviography), (b) experimental analysis of behavior (experimental behaviorology), and (c) a theoretical or conceptual analysis of behavior (theoretical behaviorology). Applied research refers to behavior-analytic applications of the experimental analysis of behavior to the prevention and solution of social problems. As such, it includes (a) applied research in the form of experimental analysis oriented towards finding solutions to social problems and (b) behavioral technology, in the form of behavior-analytic procedures alone. The philosophy of behaviorology is that of behaviorism, which includes both, philosophical ( or metatheoretical) assumptions and the philosophical implications of data obtained by the experimental analysis of behavior and its applications."


 * I wrote to Drs. Ledoux and Fraley and I hope to hear from them soon. Thank you for your patience.  Greg987 (talk) 00:48, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * An article whose listed author is "Comunidad Los Horcones"? Not even close to being independent. Melchoir (talk) 01:25, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * P.S. The current Academic Catalog of the State University of New York at Canton includes two courses about behaviorology:
 * SSCI 245 INTRODUCTION TO THE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY OF BEHAVIOR
 * SSCI 345 APPLIED SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY OF BEHAVIOR
 * See http://www.canton.edu/catalog/catalog.pdf Greg987 (talk) 00:58, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Melchoir: I accept the validity of the Wikipedia criteria that you have cited. However, I think that you should take into account the fact that Behaviorology a scientific discipline, whether that is documented in peer-reviewed scientific journals or not.  Los Horcones has its own school and from an early age children are taught how to use Skinner boxes to condition animals and how to apply behaviorological techniques to the control of their own and each others behaviors.  Several dozen children have been taught how to apply behaviorology and they do so every day.  It's a fundamental part of their culture.  One mother conditioned her baby to make pleasant "cooing" sounds to signal that it wanted to be nursed, rather than just screaming as loud as it can, as an unconditioned baby does.  So behaviorological techniques are being used on children from birth.  These are intimate fact of life for children who grow up in Los Horcones. Greg987 (talk) 02:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * This has only increased my certainty that "behaviorology" is not going to be attested in reliable sources. All independent reviews of Los Horcones actually describe its philosophy as radical behaviorism. Melchoir (talk) 08:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Melchoir: "Radical behaviorism is the basic philosophy of Los Horcones." http://www.loshorcones.org/philosophy/radicalbehaviorism.html  And because Los Horcones is located in a remote area, the Los Horconans are free to practice their philosophy without condemnation by others.  In contrast, university professors who acknowledge that they are radical behaviorists are often retaliated against by people who have a vested interest in maintaining the fiction that human behavior is initiated by a metaphysical or supernatural entity.  The discrimination that is practiced against radical behaviorists has impelled some behavioral scientists to join together under the banner "behaviorology."  They are trying to find safety in numbers while they pursue their scientific studies.


 * The powers-that-be have a long history of stomping on scientists who say things that contravene official doctrines. The story of Galileo Galilei provides an example of the state repressing unacceptable science. The campaign to "wedge" the intelligent design doctrine into science is a more recent example of efforts to distort science for political purposes. Greg987 (talk) 15:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately it is not in the interest of Wikipedia's readers for us to bend the rules in order to help people fight the power. If the articles Behaviorology and Radical behaviorism secretly share the same topic but approach it from two different points of view, then that is necessarily a violation of WP:NPOV. It's called a POV fork. Given this information, I think it is best to simply redirect Behaviorology to Radical behaviorism. Melchoir (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Melchoir: Radical Behaviorism is not a synonym for Behaviorology; it is a component of Behaviorology. Radical Behaviorism defines thoughts and feelings as natural events that occur within a person's body.  These private events can be very difficult to study but they are nevertheless defined as natural events.  These private events are not attributed to metaphysical or supernatural entities.


 * The "Radical" in Radical Behaviorism means "thoroughgoing." For a Thoroughgoing Behaviorist, everything that an orgasm does, whether it is observable or not, is behavior.  For example, if I sit perfectly still and think about what I am going to write next then I am engaged in "covert verbal behavior."


 * Behaviorology grew out of Behavior Analysis. Wikipedia redirects Behavior Analysis to to Behaviorism.  Could Behaviorology be redirected to Behaviorism, with Behaviorology being added to the "Versions" section of that page, together with a citation to the Los Horcones article about behaviorology, which was published in The Behavior Analyst.  The "External links" section on that page might be expanded to include the behaviorologist associations that I cited.  I think that I know enough about Wikipedia page coding to make these changes myself and I will make such changes if you approve.  But I do not know how to make redirects.  Could you help me with that?  Greg987 (talk) 19:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Argh. Then this article is about a separate concept that lacks independent commentary, and therefore should be deleted after all. Melchoir (talk) 22:09, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Melchoir: If I added Behaviorology to the "Versions" section of the "Behaviorism" page I would write, "Behaviorology; Founded by Julie (Skinner) Vargas, et. al; the founders regard Behaviorology as a naturalistic science of the behavior of organisms." Dr. Vargas is the daughter of B. F. Skinner.  Her page in Wikipedia is here: Julie Vargas.  She is currently an officer of the The International Society for Behaviorology; http://web.me.com/eavargas/ISB/Contacts.html  She is married to Dr. Ernest A. Vargas, who is also a Behaviorologist.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg987 (talk • contribs) 23:05, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. There does seem to be enough about this in the various Google hits to warrant a seat someplace within Wikipedia, however, I cannot find a consistent definition of what it is to determine whether it should have its own article or be merged with something else. For example: 1) "Behaviorology is an independently organized discipline featuring the natural science of behavior." 2) "'Behaviorology' names the science of contingent relations between actions and other events." 3) "There are some pretty lengthy and complicated definitions of behavior out there..." . This last one states that it is a broader field than applied behavior analysis but is quickly becoming its own field. Location (talk) 04:30, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. A professor at SUNY give a good definition and states that it used to be known by the "compromised name 'behavior analysis'" which in Wikipedia redirects to Behaviorism, of course. Location (talk) 04:41, 27 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Location: B. F. Skinner wrote a book titled "The Behavior of Organisms" ( http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1338876I ). I think that all behaviorologists would agree that "behaviorology is the naturalistic science of the behavior of organisms."  Some of them would be adamant that the word "naturalistic" be included in the definition of behaviorology as a way of distinguishing behaviorology from psychology, because psychologists have the very annoying habit of using mentalisms as explanations.  Behaviorologists have a zero tolerance for the practice of explaining behavior as a function of a metaphysical mind or supernatural soul.  They regard such explanations as totally unscientific.  Their dislike for this unscientific practice has driven them out of psychology and impelled them to found behaviorology, a NATURALISTIC science that does not countenance any metaphysical mumbo jumbo.


 * Dr. Julie (Skinner) Vargas wrote, "What B. F. Skinner began is not an 'approach', 'view', 'discipline', 'field', or 'theory'. It was, and is, a science, differing from psychology in its dependent variables, its measurement system, its procedures, and its analytic framework.1" (EUROPEAN JOURNAL OF BEHAVIOR ANALYSIS 2004, 5, 137 - 142).  She and other refugees from psychology have chosen to give her father's new "science" the name "behaviorology." Greg987 (talk) 14:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as attempted neologism by Julie (Skinner) Vargas, No general acceptance. That she may claim that this is what her father meant, does not validate it.   DGG ( talk ) 19:46, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * DGG: I don't think it is accurate to regard Julie (Skinner) Vargas as being responsible for the name "behaviorology". As far as I know, the members of Comunidad de los Horcones were the first to use the term "behaviorology", and that is their translation from Spanish to English.  In their native language they used the name "conductologia".  See http://www.loshorcones.org/psicologia/conductologia.html and then see their English translation of that page at http://www.loshorcones.org/psychology/behaviorology.html  That page includes the following sentence: "Behaviorology" is a term coined by Los Horcones in 1974 to refer to the natural science of behavior. The study subject of behaviorology is the contingency (relationship between the behavior and environmental events).


 * It might be helpful to put behaviorology into a broader perspective. The development of chemistry out of alchemy took many decades.   The metaphysical beliefs that were part of alchemy were gradually abandoned as alchemists became chemists.  Similarly, the development of behaviorology out of psychology has taken decades.  Behaviorologists reject mentalistic explanations for the behavior of humans and other organisms.  This rejection is being driven in part by the results of functional magnetic resonance imaging studies of the human brain.  These studies are proving that "the mind is what the brain does", and that kind of proof leaves less and less support for the proposition that human behavior is controlled by a metaphysical mind or supernatural soul.  That kind of proof is very disturbing for people who have preternaturalistic or supernaturalistic world-views.  It's not surprising that behaviorology is generating the kind of resistance that was generated by Charles Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection.


 * Julie Vargas did not invent the term "behaviorology". However, she is one of the founding members of the behaviorology movement -- a movement away from mentalistic assumptions and toward naturalistic assumptions about the behavior of organisms.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg987 (talk • contribs) 02:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite 20:29, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Very Weak Delete. I'm going to buy the neologism idea.  It simply isn't a large enough field at this time.  I would encourage the creator to recreate the article in about 5 years, or when more sources are available.  (adding sinage) Gosox5555 (talk) 21:04, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Gosox5555: The term "behaviorology" is not a "neologism". That term is not new; it has been in use for about 35 years (since 1974). See response to DGG (above). Greg987 (talk) 03:03, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Black Kite: I see now that I put my response to DGG in the wrong place. Sorry about that! Greg987 (talk) 03:17, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I continue to think its needless jargon and I am not at all convinced of its broad use. From the explanation above, which is clearer than the article, it seems a synonym for 21st century psychology, which is almost 90% from that same viewpoint. If enough people do use it, it will have to go in, though, & my disapproval is irrelevant.  DGG ( talk ) 04:34, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * DGG, what think you of the snippets from this Google Books search; "Behaviorology" "the science"? Abductive  (reasoning) 06:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * DGG: Richard W. Malott wrote about his trip to Los Horcones and about the children of Los Horcones, who have been reared "in a completely behavior-analytic environment". He reported his conversation with one of those children: “There are seven of us; four of Mireya and Juan’s children and three of Linda and Ramon’s children.” A whole first generation reared with behavior analysis. “There’s also a second generation; my sister’s two children.” http://dickmalott.com/behaviorism/comunitarianism/


 * Three generations of people have used behaviorology to shape their own and each others behaviors. Their numbers may be small but their achievement is enormously important to the future of our planet.  They have proven that it is possible for humans to control the evolution of their culture, to live together in peace and prosperity, and to do so without destroying their ecosystem.  Wikipedia should help to make the world aware of their culture and of the science that they have used to build that culture.


 * Behaviorology is important because it gives us the power to control our destiny. In contrast, mentalism does not give us that kind of power.


 * I am a member of the behaviorology movement but I cannot claim to be a behaviorologist. The Wikipedia page that I wrote about behaviorology is not very informative.  I have tried to remedy that by seeking the assistance of PhDs who could do a much more complete job of explaining the history and practices of behaviorology.  Could you mark the page as a "stub" and invite people to expand it?  If you leave the page there I will continue working on it.  I will try to find peer-reviewed sources that can be quoted. Greg987 (talk) 06:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Greg987 - place stub at the top of the page to indicate that it is in need of expansion. It might also be better to userfy this article until you can write a more complete and better substantiated article. - 2/0 (cont.) 19:18, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 2/0: I added a stub to the page but I am not sure that I can "userfy" it. I will have to make many interlibrary loan requests to get the articles that I need to expand the article in a "better substantiated" way.  I am going to add a "Further reading" section and I will try to find articles for that new section that can be hyperlinked, so that a reader can easily find more information about behaviorology.  The search that Abductive (reasoning) did on Google Books (cited above) will help me to find articles that can be added to Further reading. Greg987 (talk) 17:37, 6 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong keep 234 google book hits including numerous text books. 256 Google scholar hits Many of these scientific papers and books have behavioralgy in their title. "Origins and components of behaviorology" "Origins, status, and mission of behaviorology" "Behaviorology and the other behavioral sciences" "General Behaviorology: The Natural Science of Human Behavior" "Behaviorology in China: A status report" etc. Ikip (talk) 01:34, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Dear Editors: Abductive edited the Behaviorology page by removing a quote by Ernest Vargas and inserting a quote by Jerome Ulman. I believe that this substitution enhanced the page because Dr. Ulman's quote is in a book published by Sage Publications, a major publisher of science books.  (Thanks Abductive!)  I have made many other changes to the Behaviorology page in an effort to bring it up to Wikipedia standards.  Please review those changes.


 * The quote that Abductive inserted notes that behaviorology "systematically excludes accounts of behavior based on notions of an inner causal agency such as ego, self, or similar trait-type psychological concepts." This is correct but it often gives rise to a misunderstanding.  Behaviorologists assume that the behavior of an organism is a function of its physiology, its history of reinforcement and punishment, and its current environment.  This assumption may be referred to as behavioral determinism.  The use of this assumption by behaviorologists leads some people to conclude that behaviorologists reject free will; however, that is not the case.  Free will is an ethnographic fact.  Free will is an explanation for human behavior that justifies a socially sanctioned system of rewards and punishments.  In other words, free will is a political ideology.  A lawyer can properly use free will in a court of law to prosecute or defend a defendant.  However, it would be wholly inappropriate for a behavioral scientist to use that political ideology as though it constitutes a theory of behavior.  In summary, behaviorologists regard free will as a political ideology, not as a characteristic of a metaphysical mind or other non-corporeal entity. Greg987 (talk) 04:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Looking through the google scholar results that Ikip cites reveals that they represent a hodgepodge of uses, some evidently poor translations of foreign texts that clearly intend to mean behaviorism.  The term in its general use is not consistent enough to warrant an article.  The specific use that is currently the sole subject of the article is indeed a neologism and not sufficiently notable to be covered. I would note parenthetically that, as an admin and, years ago, a frequent AfD closer, I seriously doubt Greg987's advocacy is helping his cause. Chick Bowen 02:30, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Mr. Bowen: In 1990 Comunidad de los Horcones hosted an annual convention of The International Behaviorology Association. Los Horcones built a convention hall and more than a dozen additional rooms to accommodate convention attendees from 4 continents -- Asia, Europe, North America, and South America.


 * I started editing Wikipedia by expanding the Los Horcones page, which was marked as a "stub". I considered putting an explanation of behaviorology into the Los Horcones page but I soon realized that behaviorology is much bigger than just Los Horcones.  Behaviorology has an international constituency.  I tried to show the extent of that constituency when I composed the behaviorology page in Wikipedia.


 * In regard to my "cause", as you call it, please note that the B. F. Skinner Foundation advocates "better behavioral science for a more humane world". The science that Dr. Skinner pioneered can be applied to teaching.  His eldest daughter, Julie Vargas wrote a book (published in 2009) that shows teachers how to apply techniques based on Dr. Skinner's behavioral science.  I sincerely hope that many teachers will read Dr. Vargas' book and then implement the teaching methods that she wrote about.  I believe that this would lead to more humane teaching practices and I am proud to acknowledge that this is my "cause".


 * In the United States, teachers beat hundreds of thousands of children each year. For example, in 2004 an 18-year-old high school girl was beaten bloody with a four-foot-long board.  She was injured so badly that, when her hip subsequently became swollen, she was unable to walk from one classroom to another and had to be picked up off a hallway floor and taken to a hospital for emergency medical treatment.  The Supreme Court of the United States later validated that extremely violent assault when it refused to hear her appeal.


 * The United States is an extremely violent country. I advocate the use of teaching techniques based on Skinner's behavioral science as a way of curbing that violence.  And I fervently believe that the Wikipedia page about behaviorology should be expanded, not deleted!  Greg987 (talk) 19:23, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - We do need an article on behaviorology, but not this one. It's a term that people will encounter and want to look up. The article should be something along the lines of "Behaviorology is a term which can refer to a variety of disciplines, such as Radical behaviorism, Applied behavior analysis...". Better to start again. Jll (talk) 11:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.