Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Belgians in Heaven


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to American Folklore Theatre. I have re-closed this as there was a fairly clear consensus to Merge and I suspect the Delete !votes may have gone this way if the issue had been raised before they commented. Black Kite (t) (c) 15:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Belgians in Heaven

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

I do not see that any 3rd party reliable sources can be found to document notability. Fiftytwo thirty (talk) 22:18, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin re merge: See Update at the bottom of this discussion. Voceditenore (talk) 06:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. This suggests that the play's author might meet our notability guidelines, but nothing about the play itself. --  Blanchardb - Me•MyEars•MyMouth - timed 22:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This article has been nominated for rescue. Silver  seren C 22:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I have tagged the article for rescue. Silver  seren C 22:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I have added sources to the article and formatted it a little. It was harder to find sources just for the fact that the play hasn't been done since 2001, but I managed it. Silver  seren C 22:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Afraid I'm not going to change my mind on this one... The sources are mostly trivial mentions and don't have much to base an article off of. --Fiftytwo thirty (talk) 23:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This doesn't seem like a trivial mention to me. Silver  seren C 23:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * A school newspaper---from a satelite campus not the main campus no-less---is not a ringing endorsement of notability.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 00:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Easy Delete the sources that were added do not demonstrate notability or importance, they only demonstrate existence. Non notable play by non-notable playwright.  Don't see much hope of this one being salvaged.--- Balloonman  NO! I'm Spartacus! 22:53, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I thought this was a hoax based on 'Pakistanis in Belgium' and 'Turks in Pakistan' and 'Italians in India'.   Ran for a few years in a single place, and then never anywhere else?  doesn't look notable to me.David V Houston (talk) 23:03, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the sources I added, it actually has run at multiple venues. It did play only for a few years at the American Folklore Threatre, but it has played at other places since then. Silver  seren C 23:14, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Following the links in the article, I only see one other production, and that's still in Wisconsin.  Did I miss something more? David V Houston (talk) 23:37, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, well it obviously played at the American Folklore Theatre. It also played at the University of Wisconsin-Platteville Center for the Arts and I believe one of the sources said the festival was at other venues as well. I haven't actually gone through all of the Google hits for it, so there could be more out there. Silver  seren C 23:43, 19 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Google news results show it gets mentioned in the news media.  A play doesn't get mentioned if it isn't notable.   D r e a m Focus  05:52, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "Mention" does not equal notable (read the actual articles). See my comments below. Voceditenore (talk) 06:43, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete or at best Merge with American Folklore Theatre. This was one of a series of articles created by User:Rmparke. This editor created American Folklore Theatre as a verbatim copyvio, which I reduced to a stub. They also started creating articles for each of their productions. The others are Beneath the Northern Sky, Packer Fans From Outer Space, Northern Lights, Loose Lips Sink Ships, Guys on Ice, and Lumberjacks in Love. The one genuinely notable play performed (but not premiered) by the theatre was The Spitfire Grill, a long and established article which the editor tried to over-write with this. I tried finding some references and properly formatting Loose Lips Sink Ships. But Rmparke immediately reverted them, and I gave up on the rest. The article under question here, and the others I've listed, are not notable enough for stand-alone articles. They have have had only very local (and/or self-published) coverage, often just trivial announcements in local entertainment sections. The few performances outside The American Folklore Theatre (if any) have been student productions or by amateur theatre groups, as is the case here. Note that the Chicago Tribune article is about a completely different play which the reviewer recommends the AFT book after they finish Belgians in Heaven. I would recommend pruning the hype from the plot descriptions, keeping the references and then merging this article and the others into American Folklore Theatre. Here's a model from a similar article that I rescued from AfD: Family Opera Initiative. – Voceditenore (talk) 06:43, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment If the consensus is to merge, I'd be happy to do the work of merging this and the other productions into American Folklore Theatre and develop that article. I honestly think that's the best solution. It preserves the revelevant information and references and enhances the parent article. If any of these plays become independently notable in the future (which I highly doubt), the redirects can be returned to stand-alone articles. Voceditenore (talk) 09:17, 20 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been notified to WikiProject Musical Theatre – Voceditenore (talk) 06:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge to American Folklore Theatre, where short summaries of their original productions can be placed. This doesn't seem to have gone past Wisconsin. Mandsford (talk) 12:34, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge into American Folklore Theatre, per Voceditenore's discussion above. I would also vote to merge the other play articles mentioned by Voceditenore into American Folklore Theatre.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:44, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge to American Folklore Theatre per Voceditenore. VernoWhitney (talk) 19:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Update I've gone ahead and merged this article into American Folklore Theatre, although I haven't redirected yet. If the decision is to merge, Belgians in Heaven will then be redirected to the main article. I haven't merged the others, pending the outcome here, but I wanted to make sure this one didn't get lost in the shuffle. In the merge, I pruned the original hype and the wordiness resulting from attempts to lengthen the article. I also dropped two extremely trivial "references" which were merely ticket announcements, etc. If the AFT article becomes greatly expanded (e.g. a proper history, etc.) and the past productions becomes more developed (at the moment it isn't even in chronological order), it can become a separate list linked from the AFT. Voceditenore (talk) 06:57, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.