Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Ivey

Ben Ivey
''Ben Ivey is a student at Winston-Salem Forsyth County Sckools. He enjoys playing Yu-Gi-O cards and being awesome.''

Might not be entirely encyclopedic. Wyllium 11:53, 2004 Oct 1 (UTC)
 * Not entirely, no. Delete. -- Necrothesp 13:09, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah, but Wikipedia is not paper! Strong keep!  (er, no, Delete) Terrapin 13:32, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Chris 73 Talk 14:40, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Clearly not awesome. I felt no awe whatsoever on reading this article. Average Earthman 14:50, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete --Jll 15:47, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * This kind of thing can be speedily deleted, and I have done so, it's not necessary for it to stay here for five days or whatever the period of time is. Adam Bishop 16:54, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I am not going to waste peoples' time by restoring this eminently deletable article, but I don't see how it can be considered a legitimate speedy deletion. I really think you should state clearly for the record which of the nine categories it falls under. Your edit comment says only "(it's on vfd but it clearly speedy-able)." Not clearly, not to me. It's not patent nonsense, not vandalism, and I don't think it really qualifies as a test page, either. What I think perhaps you should have done was to delete it, not because it is a speedy, but because you can already judge that rough consensus for deletion is achieved. I've done this on occasion. It isn't perfectly fair because it makes it harder for the article's author to find the VfD debate, but at least it keeps the process open (and gives any pitbull inclusionists a chance to get their licks in). When I've done this, it's always been very short articles and I've always included the content of the article in the deletion discussion so non-sysops can see what's going on. Anyway, the content of this one was:
 * Ben Ivey is a student at Winston-Salem Forsyth County Sckools. He enjoys playing Yu-Gi-O cards and being awesome. He takes Japanese at the career center and goes to West Forsyth High School. He has hair that goes down to his shoulders and wears glasses. He is very awesome and you should come here to meet him. NORTH CAROLOINA!!! His Japanese name is ?? ???.
 * Hmm, I guess I should have read that page first :) I've deleted dozens of these in the past, before they turned up on VfD. I suppose I could cite number 5...I'll restore it if necessary but obviously it will just be deleted again. Adam Bishop 04:19, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think the grey area in an article like this is whether it can be considered to be a "newbie test." It's not always clear where a half-joking newbie test leaves off and a serious vanity article begins. No point in restoring this article unless anyone sees any reason to, but in future I think they should be listed for VfD to keep the deletion process open and transparent.


 * comment: looks like it's been speedied already   &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 17:48, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, vanity. For your voting pleasure, the content is reproduced above. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 00:33, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Vanity articles are deletable but they are not candidates for speedy deletion. Rossami 03:48, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete -- even if it was speedied, it's back now. It is a sad tale. Poor young man. Should learn to make out. --jpgordon 00:03, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Don't delete as recently stated it isn't a vanity article just a bio.  it's been edited several times.  maybe he's a local celebrity-Locker
 * Keep. It's a feel-good article and he is also a local celebrity in these parts. -Sisco
 * Keep. Ben Ivey is famous in Clemmons, NC, even if he hasn't learned how to make out. -Scuba Monkey
 * Note that the above three votes are by anons 64.12.116.82 66.82.9.12  68.210.249.27 and should not be counted in determining consensus. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:08, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

oh..... its all true
 * Keep. TrollQueen 00:26, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete --Alex Krupp 00:26, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity? Not notable! --Improv 16:40, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Young person vanity. Not notable. jni 16:48, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - Are those sock-puppet votes? Poor lonely soul. At least he's not doing the self-destructive things that some people (read: me) did in their youths. ClockworkTroll 17:16, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I was going to vote keep because he is "critically acclaimed" at West Forsyth High School, but I have to vote delete because he does a poor job of making out. Gamaliel 02:54, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Ben is a great celebrity and he is my hero...<3<3<3, B-man
 * Delete &mdash; article, user, and sockpuppets. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 22:02, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Of course delete this piece of stupid junk ... I removed a couple sentences about sex and some girl, just in case it refers to a real person. - DavidWBrooks 01:11, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC) ... that edit may have been a mistake, as it drew the attention of bored sub-teen anons who are now editing the article with more (cough) clever whimsy.
 * Delete...however, not a speedy candidate. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 21:43, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think this should be deleted, unless there's some evidence that he's actually a local celebrity. That seems unlikely, and the entry still would need a lot of rewriting to become acceptable, but it would mean that the article can't be deleted. Without evidence for that, though... Factitious 22:38, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, entirely non-notable. &ETH;&aring;&ntilde;&eta;&yuml;&szlig;&ocirc;&yacute; | Talk 02:05, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, please. -- Hadal 02:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

All right now y'all, people dont seem to understand that Ben is an industrious, ambitious person with unlimited potential. To see people write him off as a joke deeply pains me. Given that y'all have never even met the guy, I've known him for 6 years, I don't think you have the right to limit his free expression. Ben has started various projects in the community: he started a DDR club to support physical fitness at his middle school (to applause and various articles by the media community) and has many times picked up trash in around his local school. He walks to school, uphill both ways (I AM NOT KIDDING YOU!!!!!!), to help save our precious natural resources. He's great with kids and a great guy and I think for y'all to be ragging on someone who is going to do something great (rather than spend his free time limiting other people's 1st amendment rights after fry duty at the local grease shack) for himself and for other people. If you don't think its true, ask me. wvincoli@triad.rr.com Even if its exaggerated to a minor degree, its the stuff of legends and a role model for the middle-class American child forever more.

Walker Vincoli

PS- He's so cool, you don't even know he's cool- kind of cool.

If you plan on editing what I've written above, please email me so I know what's going on. Thank you.

'''Ben is in fact a local celebrity and has been in the paper dozens of times, for various things. People all around here know and love him and to have his personal history up here would be awesome. Just because people dont know him doesnt mean they have to say he's uncool or whatever. Everyone loves Ben, kids, adults and puppies too, so unless you want to throw the personal histories of bunches of people out the window DONT DELETE, obviously the people who are voting to keep are very emotional about keeping this, and I think that those votes should count more strongly than web surfers who dont know or understand the complexity of the concept. all in all KEEP!!!'''
 * Could we have some evidence that he's a local celebrity? Are there any webpages mentioning him, or online copies of these dozens of newspaper mentions? Without evidence, there's no reason to consider the topic to be encyclopedic. Please note that this has nothing to do with whether he's cool or not. Factitious 03:16, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. When his unlimited potential produces some notable accomplishments, write them up.  Until then, Wikipedia can exercise its First Amendment rights.  The First Amendment includes the right not to speak (see West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette), and we can choose not to speak about nonnotable people. JamesMLane 04:03, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Im sorry, our local news organizations are much like wikipedia insofar as they like to delete everything from their websites rather than keep them for posterity. I guess you just need to trust the people who KNOW Ben as to whether hes a local celeb, rather than people from other parts of the country. I would be happy to rewrite it so its acceptable. If not, we'll just have to say goodbye to helping wikipedia and its users and move into the private sector.- Vincoli
 * OK, that makes sense. I hadn't considered the possibility that the websites of those papers had deleted old stories, though in retrospect, that's a common enough policy that I should have thought of it.  I'm voting to Keep, but I think the article needs more objective information on what exactly makes Ben Ivey notable, and fewer stories about how cool he is. Factitious 05:19, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * I thought the assertion of those in support of the page was that "how cool he is" is what, in fact, makes him so notable. At any rate, I'm holding off on voting until we find out about these alleged newspaper articles. Posiduck 16:44, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * There is a very good chance that the Clemmons branch of the Forsyth County Public Library keeps local newspapers on file for many years; most public libraries do. There is a requirement that everything in Wikipedia be "verifiable." That means that a third party, independent of "the people who know Ben," must be able to verify the claims. I am sure that Ben or some of his classmates will have clipped the newspaper stories about him. If you can give me the name of the paper and the date, I would be glad to telephone the reference librarian at (336) 712-4450 and ask him or her to verify the story. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 15:51, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Certaintly Wikipedia can exercise its rights under our Constitution, and delete the article "Ben Ivy." However, doing so serves little purpose other than saving a few kilobytes of space. If Ben or his companions wish to inform whoever wishes to know of his existence and nature, what matter is it to Wikipedia? Indeed, if Wikipedia aims to become a true encyclopedia, or compendium of human knowledge, as the definition that this site itself offers begins, then they should be open to contributions of human knowledge, no matter what form they take (so long as they aren't offensive). A contribution that informs of one particular person is part of human knowledge, and the idea that Wikipedia could begin to move this long-dreamed-of goal of compiling human knowledge in its entirety is truly splendid. It must be accepted that a knowledge of each individual on the planet is a part of human knowledge. I feel that this really isn't 'spam' and has a credible place here. Fears that this example may justify others' doing the same are unbased: so long as what is said is organized well and endevours to be informative as opposed to facetious, it has its place in any true 'encyclopedia'. Looking towards a future goal, I vote keep. -Phoebus Apollo
 * Comment: User:PhoebusApollo, two edits, both dated 8 Oct 2004, both to this discussion
 * Our deletion policy is that vanity pages are to be deleted. VfD is where we execute this policy. If your goal is actually to retain this article, you are more likely to achieve it by providing some verifiable evidence that Ben Ivey is notable, even locally notable, and by pointing to some verifiable achievements of his, than by arguing that we should change our policy. If your goal is to effect a change in our policy, you should present your case at Wikipedia_talk:Deletion_policy. There is always a vibrant and dynamic tension between Wikipedians who think we delete too much and Wikipedians who think we do not delete enough, and your arguments will find a more receptive audience there. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 17:39, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)