Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Jackson (electronic sports player) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can&#39;t sleep, clown will eat me 10:01, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ben Jackson (electronic sports player) (2nd nomination)

 * — (View AfD)

A consensus decision at the prior AfD was overturned at deletion review. The disagreement about sources has not been resolved during the review, so it is now back here for more discussion. Please see both prior discussions before commenting or closing. This is a procedural nomination, I have no opinion. ~ trialsanderrors 20:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak Delete - per a request I made in Village Pump, I am not sure what to make of these players anymore. :: Colin Keigher ( Talk ) 22:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Notable subject clearly passes WP:BIO having been cited by multiple non-trivial independent sources. He is also the top ranked player in a notable genre of gaming, Halo 2. 151.204.193.104 22:50, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. I ran across this at the DRV, and I think it was handled correctly the first time around. If someone wanted to merge a couple of sentences into Major League Gaming by creating a section on notable participants and convert this page into a redirect, I'd be OK with that, as long as any added material could be sourced properly. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 05:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm only seeing one independent reliable source. One Night In Hackney 05:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep As weak as humanly possible. I think we have too much of these non-notable gamers because of systemic bias. Namely that things of interest to techy young men are going to be more notable to Wikipedians, who largely are techy young men, then they will to anyone else on the planet. Still he didn't seem to be any less notable than several other such who just got keep.--T. Anthony 07:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Note I can easily switch to weak delete if we start moving against some gamer articles.--T. Anthony 07:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Moving against gamer articles? Well, let's hope so, because there are plenty of contributors who haven't yet been upset to learn that a few guys here don't think their area is interesting enough for Wikipedia. Grace Note 07:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not about interesting, it's about notable. Is every guy or gal who wins some gamer competition notable? Granted we only have 30 people in Category:Electronic sports players, but that's still more than Category:Spellers and Category:American pool players combined.--T. Anthony 08:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per deletion review. It's a serious problem that deletionists insist that sources be the equivalent of the mainstream media. This creates systemic bias. They surely need only be reliable in the correct context? BTW, ColourBurst, if you read this, you severely misunderstand WP:OWN. A person who cares about manga doesn't consequently own the articles about it. I can edit them mercilessly. But applying my own lack of caring to consideration of them is wrong. Do you see the difference I am suggesting? Grace Note 07:59, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I was pondering this position myself for a while. Often times we delete notable topics within a particular field because no sources in that field are considered reliable. However, when I look at this subject from the eyes of a gamer, I don't see much importance. If I had to choose between having a bunch of crap articles about "professional" MLG gamers and having no articles about gamers at all, I would choose the latter. --- RockMFR 08:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Earlier I said that this should be overturned and undeleted, but in retrospect, I don't think that was the best option. Most of the claims of notability within these types of articles are extremely weak. "John Doe is a professional gamer working for MLG. He won some Halo tournaments." This doesn't mean much at all. MLG is not a respected and/or important organization in the world of gaming. Are any of the gamers within the league important? Not really. The sources do seem to be fairly trivial in this case. Will anyone care about this person in 10 years? or 100 years? Not a chance. --- RockMFR 08:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep please there are multiple sources that are reliable already and this person is notable in gaming Yuckfoo 08:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment There are not multiple independent reliable sources. The only independent reliable source is the article in The Californian.  One Night In Hackney 08:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - He's been included in two PR Newswires (which reached the United States and Europe) and other independent reliable sources, is the United States National Champion in HALO 2 Free-For-All (FFA), and shares in a $1 million dollar team contract with Major League Gaming, all at the tender age 19. The article could use a good cleaning, however. -- Jreferee 09:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Surely any company or person can send a press release to PR Newswire and have it distributed? One Night In Hackney 10:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Electronic sports? Who do they think they are fooling? Guy (Help!) 10:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak keep seems to be a notable professional gamer, has some media coverage.  ALKIVAR &trade; &#x2622; 18:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Please be considerate of interests other than your own, professional gaming is here to stay, and this person is a notable figure in that realm, as established by multiple non-trivial and reliable sources documented here, and within the article as well.  Silensor 08:45, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Can someone list the independent multiple non-trivial and reliable sources please? I can see one. One Night In Hackney 08:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep Won a national tournament, interviewed by CNBC, article in NCTimes about him. People said the same things about snowboarding when it started. Electronic games are here and with an organization for competition. MECU ≈ talk 18:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per my previous decision and the comments/arguments referenced therein. There really is not a substantive amount of reliable, non-trivial sourcing for this video gamer. alphachimp  06:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.