Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Jacques-Maynes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Shimeru (talk) 07:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Ben Jacques-Maynes

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I propose this article for deletion in order to make notability criteria for WP:CYCLING. I made a proposal for this, but so far I am the only contributor to that proposal, so there is not even a little bit of consensus on that one. So to make everything clear: I will not "use" my essay on cycling notability to get this article deleted, but I am planning to use the result of this deletion discussion to improve that essay.

The guideline that deals with this article is WP:BIO. Because Jacques-Maynes is known as an athlete only, it is WP:ATHLETE. Jacques-Maynes did never participate in Olympic Games or World Championships, so he fails the second option. The first option is more difficult, because the level system in cycling is blurry.

Ben Jacques-Maynes is in a team since 2002, see here. For those not into cycling: cycling teams are divided into some levels:
 * UCI ProTour teams
 * UCI Professional Continental teams
 * UCI Continental teams
 * etc.

The highest level team that he rode on is his current team, which is a UCI Continental Team, the third level. Teams at this level can be professional, semi-amateur or amateur, so it is not a fully professional level. Jacques-Maynes may be a professional cyclist (I have no proof for this, but I assume he is), but that is irrelevant.

Races are also divided into levels: ProTour, HC, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. There is also a level "NE", which means "National Event", which is outside this ranking. Jacques-Maynes won some stages in the last year, but all of them were in the UCI categorisation "NE". In Cycling, the highest level teams are the UCI ProTeams, and they are not even allowed to enter "National Events", so these are certainly not the highest level. The highest level race category that Jacques-Maynes entered was the HC category, for example the 2009 Tour of Missouri. He was able to do this, because HC level races are allowed to invite local UCI Continental teams to their race.

Jacques-Maynes never rode in a team that competes on a fully professional level. (That would have to be UCI ProTour or UCI Professional Continental.) Jacques-Maynes did ride in some races that were fully professional, but his team needed a special invitation for that, so this is irrelevant.

From this I conclude that Jacques-Maynes did not compete on a fully professional level, so is not notable. Thank you for your attention. EdgeNavidad (talk) 17:35, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

From what I have seen of the American Cyclists category, this would def. not be one to be deleted. B. J.-M. is one of the more prominent cyclists on that list, so either delete many other American names there first, or leave this one up. My two cents... Jack B108 (talk) 16:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand what you say, but it is irrelevant according to the wikipedia guidelines. This AfD is only about B. J.-M., and it is irrelevant how many other cyclists' articles exist. And he may be or not be prominent (he is ranked 91st American male road cyclist according to cyclingranking for example, while the Category:American cyclists contains 295 cyclists including female and BMX), but to be notable as an athlete he should be competing on a fully professional level, which I think he is not. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:43, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * He is notable for three separate reasons:
 * 1) He has won some Elite level professional races
 * 2) He is a elite category professional cyclist
 * 3) He is a member of a UCI registered cycling team.
 * I vote keep Racklever (talk) 11:28, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ad 1: The races he won are on the third level at most, so I would not call that "Elite level". Secondly: the races that he won were in a class that is in principle open to amateur teams, so they are not fully professional.
 * ad 2: Again, "Elite category" is wrong. He is not in a "UCI proteam", neither in a "UCI professional continental team", but in a "UCI continental team". Note the absence of the word "professional".
 * ad 3: Being registered at the UCI does not make a team notable, let alone a cyclist. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 16:35, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * He won the first major pro race of the U.S. season, a three-stage event, the 2010 Merco CU Cycling Classic. So this article shouldn`t be deleted (I don`t think it should right now, but I understand why the proposal was made). IMHO.... Jack B108 (talk) 17:23, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep. As I understand it, the pro/amateur distinction is very difficult in cycling because some low-level teams are professional and compete in high-level races. This guy has received significant coverage in reliable sources and has won major races. Forget the technicalities of WP:ATH; he is notable. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:01, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This guy did not win races on a fully professional level. The definition of a 'major race' may vary from person to person (I would not call the races J-M won major), so that is not a good criterium, that is why wikipedia uses the fully professional definition.
 * You point that he has received significant coverage may be more to the point, although I am not sure if it is really significant.
 * My current position is that I think that J-M is not notable because of of WP:ATH because he did not compete on a fully professional level, but there is a chance he still is notable because he received significant coverage in reliable sources. I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but what do other people think of this? (The goal of this AfD is not primarily to get this article deleted, but to make a guideline for cyclist's biography notability). --EdgeNavidad (talk) 19:08, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 10:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.