Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Benjamin Thomas Watt


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Lourdes 15:37, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Benjamin Thomas Watt

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Clear fail of WP:GNG and there seems to be a major issue regarding WP:NPOV seeing as the main (and one of only three) contributor is the subject himself. I also think it’s reasonable to assume at least one of the other two content contributors is also the subject himself, but that is only speculation. 2 . O . Boxing 02:41, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  2 . O . Boxing  02:41, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Boxing-related deletion discussions.  2 . O . Boxing  02:41, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions.  2 . O . Boxing  02:41, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Concur with nom that there is a COI here. Article creator is the subject and one other account seems to be the same person.  A clear case of WP:Self-promotion.  DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 04:31, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge/draftify. Found a few sources:
 * Cancer survivor talks about struggle with sexuality in boxing industry, there is a lot here that likely could replace or double the other sourcing.
 * Benji Watt: In this podcast Benji talks about being the first openly gay boxing judge in New Zealand and his upcoming marriage., 27-minute interview, likely not hard news but still useful.
 * Being the world’s first openly gay boxing judge does lend that at least some of the content should be merged to other articles. The remaining content doesn’t seem to be contested as much as bordering promotional. There is also plenty of primary sources that could be used as he is a vlogger. What’s surprising is that anything exists, as judges are not known for getting any attention, and boxing, even less. I would merge what we can for now, and draftify as he’s one or two articles too soon. Gleeanon409 (talk) 09:53, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The only two independent sources I could find were the i.stuff.co.nz article you mentioned and this from gaynz.com. Do two articles in the space of five years satisfy GNG? Or does WP:SUSTAINED come into play? I’m still trying to familiarise myself with the guideline. Also, I find the whole "first openly gay boxing judge" aspect to be very dubious; as you said, boxing judges rarely gain any attention, so how can one know if Steve Gray or Tony Weeks aren’t openly gay? There could be thousands of openly gay boxing judges that haven’t been interviewed by media. The subject might just be the first person to state their sexuality in an interview. I suppose that’s a completely different gripe though. — 2 . O . Boxing  11:33, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think you’d need a source that counters him being the first or only gay boxing judge. It’s not a field I’m familiar with so I can only guess there are other sources out there but I’d rather wait until a few more mainstream sources report on him.
 * also found Another barrier has been knocked out in sport - New Zealander Benjamin Watt is believed to be the first ever openly-gay male professional boxing judge.Gleeanon409 (talk) 11:39, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I found one that mentions the topic History Made as Transgender Boxer Wins Professional Contest in USA --Thomastheboxingwriter (talk) 09:59, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * the link provided above says he is the first openly gay judge in New Zealand, not the world. Does this not bring the whole "world’s first openly gay boxing judge" aspect into doubt? It’s also the most recent of the few. — 2 . O . Boxing  10:20, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Not really. It’s a small enough and easily defined field that if *anyone* else said they were also an openly gay boxing judge we’d report that too and NPOV represent the facts. I think Watt still comes out ahead on that. Gleeanon409 (talk) 11:02, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * But which "fact" is to be reported? World's first, or New Zealand's first? One potentially reliable source says "world’s first" and another says "New Zealand's first". — 2 . O . Boxing  12:14, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * As they appear to be the *only* openly gay pro boxing judge I’d say world’ first. Gleeanon409 (talk) 12:17, 30 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete This whole article is a blatant COI, and inappropriate WP:Self-promotion. (The subject of the article did not help his case by recently deleting the "COI" notice (it was later reinstated by another editor).)  While this person might arguably be sufficiently notable for a Wikipedia article, this should be rewritten from scratch by other people, with no involvement from the subject. Ross Finlayson (talk) 00:13, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the real question is if the present article is fixable through normal editing practices; absolutely. So deleting only serves to waste time and remove the COI traces from its history which also seems like a bad idea.
 * And no one has yet to assert that anything is untrue, just that some of it is self-serving. Gleeanon409 (talk) 01:42, 30 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep He I am very new to this so I don't really know much but trying to learn from experience. I agree that its obvious that the main contributor created this article about himself. Which is a COI and doesn't provide a WP:NPOV. Sorry I didn't used them appropriately. But doesn't he meet the criteria WP:GNG for not only the subject of being First openly gay judge but other things that he has done as well? including: LGBT stuff - Young asked to share their coming-out stories, Boxing Promoter Boxing fireworks expected at Auckland's ABA Stadium , Boxing Manager Zane McNab's boxing comeback on track after freak accident left him urinating blood Geovana Peres And Lani Daniels Set For Epic Rematch On March 30th, This Time For WBO Light Heavyweight Championship Geovana Peres dominates late replacement opponent New Zealand LGBTI Award SPORTS PERSONALITY SHORTLIST. He obviously is some sort of Notability to the person, even if it is minor Notability, he is being mentioned in multiple sources even if the sources aren't directly about the subject. I think keep the article but completely needs to be rewritten by someone more experience with Wikipedia and no COI. --Thomastheboxingwriter (talk) 10:51, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Just to make things clear, could you (User:Thomastheboxingwriter) please explain any relationship that you have with the subject (Benjamin Thomas Watt)? Are you Benjamin Thomas Watt yourself?? Ross Finlayson (talk) 11:18, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No I am not Benjamin Thomas Watt. I have never met Benjamin so no relationship with him. but he is well know in the boxing community in New Zealand. --Thomastheboxingwriter (talk) 11:23, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I find this a bit difficult to believe, given that almost all of your edits have been on Benjamin's page, and you were the editor who chose to delete the page's "COI" tag on 17 November 2019 (UTC)? Ross Finlayson (talk) 16:07, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * You created your account 6 minutes before your editing spree on this page and ended with an edit to Geovana Peres whom, as you wrote, is a friend of Watts. Not buying it. The only way you could have made it more obvious is if you had edited your dads page, though I see you have taken the time to comment on his deletion page too. Interesting. --Pokelova (talk) 01:14, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment: Hey I thought it is time for me to weigh in here. I am the creator of the article and yes it is about me. I made this page back in 2015 because well my own ignorance and over excited for doing the things I enjoy doing. I stopped editing the page in 2018 because I realised that making the page and continuing editing it probably was wrong thing to do and so Obviously a Conflict of interest. If the Article gets kept, Deleted or any other action I accept that as I want to do what is best for Wikipedia. --Bennyaha (talk) 12:02, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete - Based on the history, this is a clear case of "Conflict of interest" and WP:SELFPROMOTE article. I also suspect Thomastheboxingwriter is the same person with User:Bennyaha; they are Benjamin Thomas Watt. User:Bennyaha has just admitted that he is in fact writing about himself. This is a straight forward NO NO in Wikipedia as per WP:NPOV. Strongly delete! - Jay (talk) 11:32, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Additional comment - I checked the references given. The article / person fails WP:GNG. The references in this article are "many" but some of them are no longer exist, some about other people, while most are not sufficient to prove his notability - Jay (talk) 11:47, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:NOT Lightburst (talk) 19:38, 7 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.