Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Benjamin Winter, Sr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) Dea  db  eef  06:25, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Benjamin Winter, Sr.

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I prodded this with the following rationale, which I believe is still valid: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing General notability guideline and the more detailed Notability (biographies) requirement." The creator deprodded this with the edit summary of "Winter was one of the largest real estate speculators in New York City in the early 1900s". This is not related to any GNG/BIO guideline. He was a successful businessmen, but being rich is not enough to be notable (except the top billionaires). Rich businessmen must still generate coverage in other sources, and I am not seeing anything here outside a few passing mentions and paid notices such as obituaries. We are not an obituary host, nor a place to advertise a family business (which this article seems to try, given the final paragraph). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:28, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. Hard to find sources since his grandson has the same name and is still a prominent real estate developer but there is coverage in the New Yorker but its behind a pay wall; . Gbook hits include reasonable coverage in Supreme City: How Jazz Age Manhattan Gave Birth to Modern America, passing discussion in The Empire State Building: The Making of a Landmark and United States Jewry, 1776-1985, Volumes 1-2, a few passing mentions in several other books not worth linking. Seems to have extensive coverage in The National Jewish Monthly but I can't read most of it. Obituary in the Jewish Telegraphic Agency.  JTdale   Talk 16:11, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:36, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:36, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Well sourced. Notable real estate magnate.ShulMaven (talk) 01:35, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep I am the author. There are 577 articles referencing Benjamin WInter in the New York Times archives nearly all of them from the 1920s, the 1930s, and 1940s and applying to the aforementioned. *New York Times archives: Benjamin Winter — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patapsco913 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 11 November 2014‎ (UTC)
 * , a lot of those links are local news or passing mentions—what articles in specific are you looking at? czar ♔   00:00, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * ,The New York Times articles are all abstracts so we do not have the full content of the article. Here is one here with the New York Times stating: "Benjamin Winter, one of the largest and most active real estate operators during the boom days in Manhattan". *New York Times: "HOTEL HERMITAGE BOUGHT BY WINTER; Parcel Adjoining Seventh Av. and Forty-second St. Sold by Greenwich Savings Bank. MORTGAGE AT 4% GIVEN Times Square Neighborhood on Upward Trend, With Many Improvements Under Way" March 15, 1933].Patapsco913 (talk) 00:22, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I ask mainly because I can access these articles. If you're making a case for the subject's notability, simply having a name show up in search proves very little. Many of the articles about him (if it is indeed him) are very brief—tough to tell what's about him and what's about his company, and where Jr. fits into all this. As for whether the guy was actually well known, I don't know. These are just little listings and reports of buildings that were bought/sold. Right now the article looks like it has been refbombed—lots of links to headlines but no indication whether those headlines have any substantive content because they haven't been checked. Find any major biographical stuff on him? czar ♔   01:45, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note to closer, article should be moved to drop the "Sr." when this is over, as its common name czar ♔   01:51, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. Eh, I'd close this myself at this point, though I think the case is weak without saying the following: I can confirm the New Yorker mention above—it's a several-column spread across pages 12 and 13 about Winter's life and business. As for the NYT mentions, they're these really small paragraphs and I imagine they're from a briefs section of some sort, though I can't see them in situ. All in all, there's enough to write a full article about this man, his eponymous company, and their activities, so it's fine by significant coverage. If you're planning to work on the article, let me know and I can pass along some of the sources for you. czar ♔   02:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Could you add those sources to the article as external links or further reading? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:34, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * There are dozens of the little ones, if that's what you mean, and accessible only behind a paywall (ProQuest). Similarly, the New Yorker piece is in their paywalled archives czar ♔   03:19, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.