Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Benn Jordan (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Discounting the biased canvassing and sockpuppetry, the general consensus is clear that the subject narrowly passes the relevant inclusion guidelines. Deryck C. 17:39, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Benn Jordan
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Unclear where notability is supposed to lie. Apparently a prolific musician although it looks from the refs and the text that this is probably more as a session musicians. None of the refs appear to convey any notability and it fails WP:GNG. Se4veral attempts at speedy deletion by one editor. This discussion may provide a better platform to air relevant views.  Velella  Velella Talk 11:01, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. GSS  (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. GSS  (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep I think this article should remain on Wikipedia. There are some sources which establish notability. I added one interview Jordan had with The Chicago Tribune, a mainstream news source, (but Musicchief007 deleted it without explanation before he tagged the article for deletion.) There are third-party reviews available for some of Jordan's individual albums (as The Flashbulb), although I have no opinion on whether those individual album articles remain or not. Air.light (talk) 19:52, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Puff promo piecee self-authored by subject and friends e.g.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by Musicchief007 (talk • contribs) 23:58, 14 December 2015 (UTC)  — Musicchief007 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete as my searches simply found nothing better than a few links here but nothing for a better article, considering general notability and music notability guidelines. Draft and userfy if needed though, SwisterTwister   talk  08:27, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep the above search includes unnecessarily restrictive keywords which limit the number of relevant results. A less biased search reveals many articles and references from numerous independent sources, such as:
 * An article in an image-line series about notable users of their popular FL studio software.
 * Three articles on TorrentFreak about piracy and music streaming services featuring Benn Jordan.
 * An article on HeadphoneCommute which has conducted over 1000 electronica music interviews, reviews and articles since 2008.
 * Several other independent reviews, such as 2014 review by Inyourspeakers media, 2012 review by IndieCurrent, and a 2012 Hardscrabble review at Music Review Database.
 * A page on BBC.co.uk's music pages after being features in one of their radio shows in 2009.
 * A Reddit AMA with approximately 300 participants
 * The Flashbulb appears in position 2,895 on a popular artist and album ranking site out of over 83,000 albums ranked independently by 21,000 rankings lists.
 * At least 14 tabs contributed by 7 different members at ultimate guitar, and 18 over at 911Tabs.
 * Traces of dozens of events at popular venues across multiple countries featuring Benn as the main attraction, most of which are no longer persisted on the original sites themselves. — Alainbryden (talk) 16:39, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep I've been listening to this artist for close to a decade. Heard of him from a friend in California in 2007. The idea that this is just "some local musician" is not accurate.
 * He's been featured in articles on torrentfreak.com twice. Featured articles of note: headphonecommute, 2014 sabotagetimes, 2012 Muisc Review Databse, 2012 bio on allmusic calls him "one of the most well-known artists in the American IDM scene", 2015 vapor, 2010 SSGmusic, 2010
 * Referenced in meaningful way: completemusicupdate, 2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.32.44 (talk) 06:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete He is close to passing WP:GNG by virtue of the Chicago Tribune article alone. However, it is only a local newspaper for this artist. Any similar source from outside of Illinois would sway my vote.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:50, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Firstly, the criteria is WP:MUSIC. He needs to meet just one of the 12 criteria there. One such is "Has won or been nominated for a major music award". He has been winner of a London International Awards. So notability is not an issue. What's more concerning is why a deletion notice by a single-purpose vandal account (see ) is even being entertained. Greenman (talk) 12:22, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - I see that these awards are claimed, but I struggled too find an independent ref to confirm this. Can anyone oblige ?  Velella  Velella Talk 12:51, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Reply Proof of awards at coloribus advertising archive. Proof of attribution of music for the award to the Flashbulb on Vapour Music site. — Alainbryden (talk) 21:11, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: notable enough musician. Deepblue1 (talk) 12:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: This should not even be a question. A search for "Ben Jordan" might not result in much, but The Flashbulb is a notable enough musician, with nearly 300k listeners on last.fm. Moreover, the deletion has been proposed by an obvious vandal and a troll. TMladek (talk) 15:22, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Now vandals dare to propose deletions? That fact alone should cancel this AfD. Deepblue1 (talk) 19:56, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * DELETE: No evidence that these awards exist. No evidence that these awards are indeed notable. Only reference points are to the subject's own web site. In searching for London International Awards, I have found nothing of note. A proper award such as: Brit Awards, Grammy Nods, etc. that were properly sourced would sway my position. Last.fm is an archaic website of little importance which is easily manipulated and hacked by bots.  Since there are no independant references to confirm, this article fails WP:MUSIC. I too agree its specious that the Keep votes herein provide no real evidence and are more likely the subject himself or his friends.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.194.149.117 (talk) 16:22, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Reply Proof of awards at coloribus advertising archive. Proof of attribution of music for the award to the Flashbulb on Vapour Music site. — Alainbryden (talk) 21:11, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't know Benn Jordan personally, but as a fan I've given the page an overhaul based on my collection of his works, and cursory google searches. Updates include a dozen or so new references and external links, several of which are from independent new media sources. I've also added some updated facts about his projects in the Chicago community, removed dead links, added his more recent works, re-formatted the releases under different aliases to be less prominent, made the 'musical artist navbox' template consistent with the discography in the article. Hopefully these improvements will put this matter to rest, along with the clear evidence that the instigator of this whole issue, User:Musicchief007 (contributions - Reported Here), is nothing but a vandal with a personal vendetta against the artist. Alainbryden (talk) 17:24, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Significant enough musician (let alone my favorite). His albums have articles, too. If it's poor enough to qualify for deletion, than edit it so quality isn't as poor. Why is this even up for debate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.118.160 (talk) 23:16, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: I have been listening to his music for years. His main pseudonym being, "The Flashbulb" If you want to find any information regarding the artist beyond his name, that is the name to search for. This is just a couple of people trolling this poor guy to get his page off of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.33.68 (talk) 23:43, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete : not compelling argument for keep. Fails WP:MUSIC. Last fm is a BADCHART under WP:MUSIC. Googled the man and very little came up. How this article and others involving this man survived several years on Wikipedia impugns the integrity of Wikipedia itself which as an editor, I am attempting to do with my vote. I'm sure he is a lovely man though. Maybe he will have a break through hit and win a legitimate award or be a subject of a substantial broadcast as the editor notes and then He should create a single new page limited to notable information. No one gives a damn what hand he uses to play guitar, what disabilities he may or may not have or what sort of environment he lives in. It's not notable and reads like a promo piece. It would be helpful if all parties stop numerous posts on here. Just vote explain it and shut up and move on. It's Wikipedia. There was a world before it and will be one after it as well. — Hannukoivu (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 03:21, 21 December 2015 (UTC) (UTC). — Hannukoivu (talk • contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Musicchief007 (talk • contribs).
 * DELETE : In order for a release to be noted, there must be notablitity for it. It must chart on a valid chart WP:MUSIC. ""Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself", No releases referenced are released on any label of any repute whatsoever, and most are purportedly released on his own label. These do not qualify. Furthermore, award requirements are one of global repute "Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury, or Choice award." None are claimed nor refereneced. FInally, "Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network.".  The claimed Chicago Paper is not a 'substantional' broadcast segment. Such criteria would be a lead story, not something buried in the depths of an online-only article for local reasons. Finally, Mr. Jordan fails the test of WP:MUSIC as an author and composer: "Has credit for writing or co-writing either lyrics or music for a notable composition.".
 * The article gives vague references of some compositions, which are not sourced, and are thus not singularly notable. Wikipedia is a place of reference for the average person to be able to do a valid search on actually notable persons and topics, from actual noteworthy events - not fringe or downright fraudulent posts. This is not a playground for people such as Benn Jordan and his friends. Not reliable long term user has stated KEEP. All are new or unknown accounts. I do not see compelling reasons that the user Musicchief007 is a troll, nor do I find it relevant in my decision, to wit, that based on the foregoing, this page is to be DELETED as it is a classic example of advert. — Truthbetold123222 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 13:07, 19 December 2015 (UTC) (UTC). — Truthbetold123222 (talk • contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Musicchief007 (talk • contribs).

*DELETE: Delete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.194.149.117 (talk) 19:34, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Only one !vote per account allowed -- &#124;  Uncle Milty  &#124;  talk  &#124;  19:50, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I think this was actually his fourth attempt at voting on this page. If one looks at the edit histories of Musicchief007, Truthbetold123222 and 88.194.149.117, there's many similarities. Air.light (talk) 03:11, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

More information: | This article on Electronic_Musician lists The Flashbulb (Jordan's main musical project) as a Native_Instruments sponsored musician in the second paragraph. The event toured three cities as stated | in this clip from a 2006 issue of Remix Magazine. Native Instruments is a major manufacturer of electronic instruments and software. Subgeek (talk) 00:16, 21 December 2015 (UTC) | bandisintown has a list of some past tour dates showing that The Flashbulb has toured outside his area in addition to the Native Instruments Kore tour. Subgeek (talk) 00:29, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak keep, as I believe this German music magazine article and this TorrentFreak article, combined with the Chicago Tribune article, suffices to push him just over the WP:GNG threshold. However, I see that there also seems to be a walled garden of another 9 or so articles related to his works, none of which seem to assert sufficient notability for keeping, and which should probably all be deleted, even if this article passes review. -- The Anome (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: The Flashbulb's | last.fm page shows his tracks played 14.5 Million times by 291.7 thousand unique listeners. This only includes registered users of last.fm, and does not include other listeners. For comparison, reference Jonathan_Coulton, a significant artist whose work is self-released or released through his own label. | Coulton's last.fm page shows his tracks being played 8.3 million times by 338.1 thousand unique listeners. Subgeek (talk) 23:20, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep This deletion request is obvious trolling with the added complexity of an artist that prefers not to do many mainstream interviews. Both his | Chicago Tribune and aforementioned Sun Times pieces took the cover of the weekend editions of 2 very mainstream media sources. It cannot be linked directly, but even his Spotify plays/rankings for his top songs double and triple similar artists who are friendlier with the media like Squarepusher or Venetian Snares. If we're erasing a decade of users' work creating this page, then we should be removing a lot of other well-known electronic artists from Wikipedia under this precedent. If the content of the page is weak, then update it. But removing a page of an artist with millions of music streams and Youtube views, let alone 20-something physical albums is just going to continue this troll's cat and mouse game. Remove the tag and lock the page already, this is ridiculous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.81.68.114 (talk) 05:34, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note to closing administrator. Musicchief007, Truthbetold12322, and Hannukolvu have been blocked as sock puppets. See Sockpuppet investigations/Musicchief007.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:58, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.