Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Berkeley riots


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. No consensus to delete, at any rate; a merger can be discussed on the talk page.  Sandstein  05:48, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Berkeley riots

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

The title itself is biased (assuming protests were "riots") and the article itself is unscholarly and quotes solely from right-wing sources. This is merely an attack article trying to push a certain point of view Greedyhalibut (talk) 20:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It obviously needs a new name, and it needs a large rewrite, but the topic itself is notable, though Free Speech Movement might be the best place to redirect it to till it's better. Extremely weak keep.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. Appears notable, and has reasonable sources. If the objection is the name, then I think the first step would be to discuss that on the talk page. The nominator saying it quotes only from right-wing sources seems to be patently false, considering it uses material from such people as Jo Freeman. If anything I would have thought the objection would be to it being too left-wing. I certainly don't think the article can be called an attack page. Quantpole (talk) 22:17, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * After reading the last comment, I'd like to change my nomination to Merge. (The page is fairer than I thought the first time I read it - should have looked it over again before nominating.)  Still, the title is a non-starter.
 * To clarify, my main complaints (which have to do with the title and the section on "influences"):
 * -The title is clear pushing a point of view
 * -The framework of the article is "antinomianism", a broad category which explains nothing beyond making silly pieces of analysis like: "the antinomian “treats his mind as if it were completely malleable, devalues reality, rejects reason and understanding, and selects certain experiences to create a fantasied, dogmatic cosmic view of the world.”"
 * -Undue weight is placed on musical groups as "influences" and the article makes highly speculative interpretations of these groups' work
 * -The relating of events is better, and should be merged into Free Speech Movement.Greedyhalibut (talk) 00:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * These all appear to be what you see as content problems, which isn't what AfD is about. AfD is about establishing reliability and notability. If there's a problem with content I'd have thought the first step would be discuss it on the talk page. Quantpole (talk) 10:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Problem 1: Greedyhalibut: You initially seemed to take great offense with this article, but later admitted that you hadn’t really read it and it was fairer than he believed. We elected to take your criticisms with a grain of salt as you seem to be pushing your own agenda; ignoring the sources we had backing our information.
 * From Original Posters

Problem 2: The Page Name appears to be pushing a point of view: According to our findings, these protests are often clumped together and referred to as the “Berkeley Riots”, therefore, we found no reason to address this issue.

Problem 3: Issues with the Antinomian Section: We admitted that it was not clear that this was not a definite influence, although multiple scholarly sources state that it most likely was. We changed some of the language to reflect this, but chose to leave it in the page. If anyone else would like to do more research into this area they are more than welcome to, but our sources are legitimate and make sense.

Problem 4: Music Section It is in common agreement that the music of the era had a huge affect on the events during it, and our sources provide justification as to how they influenced them. We saw no reason to address this issue. Again, if anyone else would like to do more research into this area they are more than welcome to, but our sources are legitimate and make sense.

Problem 5: Events The events included in this page strictly refer to those that took place in/around Berkeley. The Free Speech Movement was nation-wide, and therefore we see no reason to move this section into the Free Speech Movement section.

This certainly was not meant to be an attack page, but if you disagree with the information wholeheartedly then we welcome you to do your own research and point out where ours in incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.92.37 (talk) 04:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the response. I still say Merge.  The events section can be merged into Free Speech Movement, which does not indicate a nation-wide but a local movement.  The antinomian and music sections represent the views of some scholars (not very good ones), but not a scholarly consensus on the events.  Sorry, but the music stuff is just silly:
 * "In line with the antinomian personality, Hendrix came to this deduction as his inability to have power over his love life garnered a feeling of weakness within him. In order to counter this, Hendrix dismisses any thought of close relationships or responsibility, instead turning to purely sexual relationships"
 * The does not shed light on Berkeley in the 60s. And the title is still biased - just because the events are referred to that way does not make "riot" NPOVGreedyhalibut (talk) 04:52, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.