Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bethmanns and Rothschilds (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ✗ plicit  13:04, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Bethmanns and Rothschilds
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This article, tagged since 2008 for non-encyclopedic tone, with no interwikis, seems like a strange POV fork compilation of content from the House of Bethmann and Rothschild family. No source cited seems to focus on those two families. The article also suffers from likely OR, such as unreferenced claims that "Like snapshots, two quotes from Egon Caesar Conte Corti highlight the great strides made by the Rothschilds in a very short time span", followed by two quotes referenced to Conti - it seems like regular OR by the original author of this essay. Ditto for "The quote below from Fritz Stern shows that in 1852, the House of Bethmann was still strong enough to...", again referenced only to Stern. The OR nature of this is very visible in the concluding "Summary", where the essay concludes with the authir's thoughts on the nature of the relationship between these families, where the only referenced thing is a quote to Goethe of little relevance and certainly not in the good encyclopedic style. The best I can say here is that a few tidbits might be considered for merger to one of the articles on the relevant families, and the referenced table on "Frankfurt's richest families" should be moved to History of Frankfurt am Main, but other than that, it's time to retire this early-Wikipedia style ORish essay. PS. The talk page of this consists of three headings, one of which is entitled "Peacock/essay" and the second, "Original research". Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 12:29, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  12:29, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete These unsourced "articles" on wiki are a black mark on our project. Delete them. I have no interest in proving why it is or isn't notable if they can't be bothered to source them in the first place. Oaktree b (talk) 17:46, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * @Oaktree b Reading the author's comments from 10 years ago (sadly they became inactive shortly afterward), they claimed they used reliable sources, but it's not very clear they even provided all details to trace them down. So it's hard to say which part of the article is ORish or not when it comes to most details, except that there is no indication any source actually covers the relation between these families. The best I can think of here would be to move it to the author's draft, maybe they'll come back one day, or maybe someone else will become interested in this and will want to reuse some tidbits after verifying them - but the odds are, nobody will do either, and people will just recreate this content using modern standards (footnotes to RSes). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, if they're inactive, we likely won't get an update out of a draftify proposal. I'm still leaning delete, it doesn't seem that we can salvage it. Oaktree b (talk) 15:19, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * delete Wikipedia is not the place to publish your term paper, no matter how good it is. Mangoe (talk) 18:54, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:00, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete this is too essay-like, and the notability of this topic has not been established. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:16, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete --This article has a lot of sources, may be not enough, but it is about two subjects not one. We have an article on Bethmann family and another on Bethmann Bank on that family and there are others on the Rothschilds (which I have not looked at).  All these are notable, but an essay on their rivalry is an essay, not encyclopaedic.  We might leave a dab-page with a series of redirects.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:20, 16 September 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.