Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beverly Foit-Albert


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Randykitty (talk) 14:48, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Beverly Foit-Albert

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Does not meet WP:GNG Atsme Talk 📧 05:03, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 05:32, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 05:32, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 05:32, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 05:32, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

* Keep China's Sacred Sites appears to be a notable text with only two authors, according to WorldCat its held by 260 institutions so while I have misgivings about the publisher Himalayan Institute. Subject also seems to have accomplished a somewhat significant feat in their field, e.g. "formed the first solely women-owned Buffalo architectural firm, Foit-Albert Associates, in 1977.” They appear to have had a long and productive career, I think this passes WP:GNG. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 21:15, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - being co-author of one book doesn't pass WP:AUTHOR, although the book itself may pass but it's best to let the process make that decision. As for the claim of her forming "the first solely women-owned Buffalo architectural firm", the cited source does not support that claim, and I have since removed it. The cited source actually states: ...people used to call me the groundhog,” jokes Foit-Albert. “I began FAA with just two other young architects. Once we landed some historic preservation work in the village of Orchard Park, N.Y., we finally set up the first real office.” She was referring to working out of her basement and then moving into her "first real office." The article is promotion of the book she co-authored, and of her architectural firm and simply doesn't qualify for inclusion in WP per WP:GNG or WP:Notability. It is better suited for an interview-type article in one of the industry magazines. Atsme Talk 📧 14:55, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 *  Delete  The book appears to have gotten very little coverage, Library Journal is a good source, PubWeekly less so, because they review such a high percentage of trade books. And the local Buffalo paper covered the book, but "local author writes..." doesn't cut much mustard. Fails WP:AUTHOR, fails WP:GNG .E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:37, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
 * , while I agree that LJ is the better source, Publisher's Weekly is a good source. They don't review "all" of the books. They review a lot, but a long time ago, I went through and broke it down and they seem to have a good ratio of reviews to all of the books published each year in English and Spanish. Basically, if it's not in PW, we should worry! Megalibrarygirl (talk) 00:27, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I didn't say "all". But it is true that, as you said, "if it's not in PW, we should worry", that is, we should doubt even the possibility that a book is notable because PU does indeed review viruually ever book that is published "trade" that the publicists at a reputable publishing house are pushing. This makes PW an excellence index of book that publishers hope will sell. But as an indicator of notability?  not so much.  Many/most books reviewed in PW sink with hardly a ripple.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:49, 16 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete.. 'see below for my modification of this : We need more coverage of women who are notable architects; the  underlined words are both important--the first to indicate an area we need to emphasise, the second to indicate the basic qualification for an article.   One non academic book does not meet WP:PROF or WP:AUTHOR, and there is no indication that he work as an architect is notable . There's a list of awards and boards at an earlier version . None of them indicate notability. (The who's who link thereis a little odd, since it goes to someone else's entry; I notice this was in the earliest version, and the fact that it goes to someone else's entry is obvious from the inserted reference, so this indicates a remarkable careless preparation of the article, and I am embarrassed that this work might come from an event sponsored by WM-NYC .  DGG ( talk ) 00:32, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I need to add that most work by this editor is very much better than this--I withdraw my over-hasty judgment.  DGG ( talk ) 06:19, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep She passes GNG. I found an article from Tennessee (and added it to the article). The Tennessee piece talks about her success as an architect while being a single mother and her firm revitalizing the downtown historic area of Buffalo. In addition, there are several sources that I cannot access here: 1) "Beverly Foit-Albert". Business First of Buffalo. September 2013:B-9. 2) CHUGHTAI-HARVEY, A. Beverly Foit-Albert has been to the top of the mountain, in more ways than one. Business First of Buffalo, [s. l.], v. 21, n. 47, p. 17, 2005. 3) Foit-Albert re-enters architecture business. Business First of Buffalo, [s. l.], v. 31, n. 40, p. 4, 2015. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 00:24, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * User:Megalibrarygirl I'm getting only a snippet view of that Buffalo article, " So perhaps it should come as no surprise that Ms. [Beverly] Foit-Albert -- president and CEO of Foit-Albert Associates, Architecture, Engineering, Surveying -- is passionate about Buffalo. Just as significant, with the architecture students she teaches at the University at Buffalo, Ms. Foit-Albert has undertaken studies aimed at finding new uses for old city landmarks as diverse as Central Terminal, the Henry Hobson Richardson buildings at the Buffalo Psychiatric Center, former East Side churches and the industrial buildings of the waterfront's Cobblestone Historic District.  But nothing speaks more about passion for the city than what Ms. Foit-Albert did with her own business in the late 1980s. Precisely as common sense was leading other businesses in the opposite direction, Ms. Foit-Albert took over a Main Street building that had..."   It is from the city she liven in, but it looks like a SIGCOV profile.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:56, 16 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep Thanks to User:Megalibrarygirl for taking a closer look, I had only searchedthe book. Here's another long, profile, full view can be accessed on Proquest. I am not familiar with this publiction, but it showed up in a Proquest newspaper search. (Profile: Beverly Foit-Albert, Hirsch, Dick. Western New York; Buffalo Vol. 67, Iss. 7,  (Jul 1992): 26.).   And the same Proquest search shows multio;e article about her in the Buffalo paper, some with full view.  I am not gonna have time to source this one today - but I think the book + the Buffalo newspaper  coverage of her opinions, buildings, and career over many years puts her over top.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment -, the business first source would make a big difference but I can neither access the source nor withdraw my nom. Perhaps the closer will take this into consideration? Atsme Talk 📧 19:36, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I couldn't access the source, either, . I just added them in case others can view them. I think the stuff in the article already and the ref I found already mean she passes GNG. The other sources would help expand her article, I think. :) Thanks to for helping to improve the article. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:38, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Here is the magazine I referenced, [www.wnyheritage.org/ Western New York]. Looks like a solid, regional (not just local) source.  Unfotunately, online archive only goes back to 1997, and this was published in 1992.  I read it via Proquest and was able to bring the article up to where I think it meets WP:BASIC. Noting also that her book is cited in other, serious-looking books on this topic .E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:59, 16 May 2019 (UTC) E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:10, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Even for cities like Buffalo, I am reluctant to accept the evidence of their newspapers as sufficiently reliable sources for notability, The snippet quoted above shows why: They are celebrating her not for being an architect, but for being a local architect--for advancing her and their own city.  This is the opposite of NPOV coverage--it's rat her promotionalism of their city,  Additionally, based on the descriptions in the reviews, her book is not a scholarly or even serious book about Chinese acred sites or Chinese architecture, but a sort of popular coffee table book  Not that one couldn't be notable for writing such books, but not for just one , unles sit had really spectacular reviews--which this one does not .  DGG ( talk ) 17:30, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * There are, in fact, non local sources. AIArcitect has her as the architect-of-the-week, Builders Review, a trade journal, profiled her firm in 2014  Foit-Albert Associates Designing for the community and environment.  E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Local sources aren't worthless. Buffalo is a large city and any person who is notable in that community is also probably likely notable for the purposes of Wikipedia. The idea that she's not independent of Buffalo because she improved the city is ludicrous. You may as well say that articles from Illinois newspapers are NPOV in regards to Frank Lloyd Wright. That's silly. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   09:25, 26 May 2019 (UTC) '
 * Weak Keep. Checking further, I think she might be notable; the problems are with the article, not with her career. The notability is not as an author, but based  on her restoration work of major landmark buildings.  They are mentioned in the article, but not linked or discussed. I've added at least the links,  and  I hope others will add some further references to her work on them.   What is important about any architect  or other creative professional is their creative work, not peripheral books  that they may have written. It is absurdd to write an article about them in an encyclopedia  without discussing their actual   work in some depth. It is  equally absurd to discuss the article purely in terms of the technicalities of sourcing,  or to make it depend on what is easy to document- but does not give notability .  DGG ( talk ) 06:19, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.