Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bharatiya Kisan Sangh


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 09:39, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Bharatiya Kisan Sangh

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

All sources are routine coverages. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NORG. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 11:57, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 11:57, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 11:57, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

based on the sources, it is better to merge this with its party BJP or Sangh Parivar-- D Big X ray ᗙ  08:38, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 *  Delete  A wing of a political party that fails WP:NORG due to lack of significant independent coverage in reliable media. This subset of a political party is not independently notable and lacks non promo content to expand. Article had been created with the sole purpose to WP:Promote its office bearers. minor passing mentions as WP:NOTNEWS type coverage don't help with the notability.-- D Big X ray ᗙ  16:18, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep A quick google search from the term "Bharatiya Kisan Sangh" and "भारतीय किसान संघ" gives 188000 and 3420000 results respectively. I can find numerous references in reliable sources such as 1, Coverage in Hindi Press - 2. 3, 4, 5, Coverage in English Press - 6, 7, 8,   Razer ( talk ) 17:29, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 02:26, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:27, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
 * see WP:GOOGLEHITS. FYI has 1 million hits and yet we have deleted Taimur Ali Khan for now.
 * Talking about the refs.
 * 1, 2. are passing mentions.
 * 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 are all WP:NOTNEWS type coverage in paper about some protest or incident. The bars of WP:ORGCRIT are much higher, and none of these meet the criteria for individual notability. D Big X ray ᗙ  18:57, 2 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Most likely promotional, does not pass WP:GNG. Could potentially have been created by BJP's promotional editing staff which seems to be active on wikipedia. Tayi Arajakate (talk) 23:39, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep, BKS is a multi-million member organization with nation-wide coverage. If you have concerns over the contents of the article, edit. AfD is not the place to address content issues. --Soman (talk) 18:31, 3 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep Article's subject is major group of farmers in India. Reliable sources available. GargAvinash (talk) 19:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Soman I have concern with the notability and thats why I am here. Soman and, If this WP:ORG is indeed so notable to have its own article, then it should be easy to show how it passes the WP:ORGCRIT (which is a higher bar than GNG for Orgs). Without hard evidence stating WP:Clearly notable and WP:Assertion don't really help the AfD. Not a single source has been shown so far that passes the criteria while WP:ORGCRIT  requires multiple sources.  D Big X ray ᗙ  07:44, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * . I have not just voted, I have explained why I am willing to keep this article. Also, this article follows WP:ORGCRIT. GargAvinash (talk) 09:24, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , without hard evidence in the form of refs and explanation why exactly that particular ref passes ORGCRIT your comment is nothing more than WP:Assertion and WP:JUSTAPOLICY. And it doesn't hold weight.  D Big X ray ᗙ  09:34, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   18:38, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment The reference provided in article and in this page all point towards them failing WP:ORG. The coverage is of a "trivial" nature as per the guidelines. It is affiliated to the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh which is a notable organisation and by that account receives some coverage. That also potentially brings it under the purview of WP:BRANCH and therefore a merge.


 * Bharatiya Kisan Sangh translates to Indian Farmers Collective, and therefore WP:GOOGLEHITS isn't a very strong argument for it. Results in Hindi are usually either about "Indian Farmers", "Indian Collectives" or "Farmers Collectives". I tried digging into a bit some time ago and it seems there is a wide lack of any sources for it to make a comprehensive article out of it. Basic facts regarding it are hard to come by.


 * In instances, it is masquerading as the Bharatiya Kisan Union which is notable for which there wasn't an article until recently. In 1, 2 for instance, it is not even clear if the BKS refereed to is same as the one in the article (There is a single line stating the existence of a BKS in Gujarat in the 70s-80s), they refer to an BKS-G for which there is a missing link to the BKS in the news sources. Even if they are the same, it seems pretty impossible for it be established properly which means it would fail WP:GNG per WP:NRVE. 3 is another problematic one, since it does not even mention a Bharatiya Kisan Sangh but rather just Kisan Sangh (The English link to which is given as "Farmers Union"). Tayi Arajakate (talk) 20:10, 8 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep The organisation is notable enough to pass WP:GNG and WP:NORG. Organisation has received multiple coverages and organisation routinely opposes the present regime of India. Organisation has mentions in multiple books even.-- Harshil want to talk? 01:55, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd like to bring to attention the point that the the article is almost doomed to be a WP:PERMASTUB. For instance, I could not find any the date of its foundation anywhere other than on its website, which wouldn't qualify WP:NOR. There is no information regarding its organisation and activities to create a comprehensive article out of. Per WP:POTENTIAL, there isn't much more to add other than from relatively infrequent coverage in the vein of "it did something" from news sources which I don't think pass WP:NOTNEWS. Its stances in many of the news source are more or less presented as the stance of the RSS therefore a Merge or at least a Draftify seem more appropriate for it if something can be made out of it at all. Tayi Arajakate (talk) 04:06, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that's not factually correct. There is defintely potential to make a good article here, the WP:PERMASTUB claim isn't valid. And as for WP:NOTNEWS, this is clearly not a organization known only for a single event. --Soman (talk) 13:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment,, the article is now expanded well beyond stub size, with 24 sources (mainly from google books). Whilst the article is far from complete, it is clearly not a permastub. There is clearly more expansion possible, to go in the role of BKS in policy during the BJP governments, for example. --Soman (talk) 14:46, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I take back my previous objections. There does seem to be enough material from scholarly sources (which I wasn't aware of previously) to make a comprehensive article out of. Tayi Arajakate (talk) 15:56, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , may I know which sources are you basing your opinion on. if there are sources that prove this to be independently notable (independent of Sangh Parivar) then you should share it on the AfD.  D Big X ray ᗙ  21:05, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The has a brief section on it,  has a paragraph highlighting it. It also finds mention in numerous other books. The books sources are independent of the Sangh Parivar. The organisation is not though and usually is in context of it which I'd suppose qualifies it more for a Merge. They are however informative enough to produce a comprehensive article on it which is why I've retracted by WP:PERMASTUB objection. Tayi Arajakate (talk) 21:38, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sangh Parivar is not an organization, but an informal umbrella of like-minded movements. Each constituent of the Parivar is a distinct organization, so WP:MERGE is not a good option. As shown in the article BKS is not entirely subordinate neither to BJP nor RSS, but a notable organization with a role of its own. The article is now well-referenced and expanded. --Soman (talk) 21:44, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@, reviewing your arguments for the delete vote, I find essentially three points of argumentation Some clarity on this would be appreciated. --Soman (talk) 11:38, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , The [link 1] is covering the opposition to Genetically modified seeds. [link2] is covering some protest and [link 3] again is on some protest and includes interviews and press releases of this organisation. Such articles are not considered for notability. These events are WP:ROUTINE coverage by newspapers. We would need multiple independent articles that covers BKS at its main subject talks about its history, organisation structure and other details that are needed in its encyclopedia article. This AfD is only to discuss the notability of the topic, raise other things on article talk. D Big X ray ᗙ  14:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)


 * For example, https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/agri-business/bharatiya-kisan-sangh-opposes-gm-tech-in-oilseeds/article29360411.ece the topic isn't GMOs in general. The topic is the position of BKS on GMOs, i.e. it is an article covering BKS. Thus it is a prime example of coverage of BKS in reliable, notable, independent media. --Soman (talk) 19:12, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , No. That article is covering GM seeds and opposition to it by BKS as the main topic. The article includes statements of the office bearers. If we are discussing a hypothetical wiki article about "Opposition to GM seeds by BKS", or "Opposition to GM seeds" then this news article might have been useful. not for BKS. Please move this thread to your user talk and continue there.  D Big X ray ᗙ  19:17, 12 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep per Soman. AfD is not for content issues. Lepricavark (talk) 21:17, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment, quote from Social Movements in India: Poverty, Power, and Politics: "The official farmers' organizations of the political parties (most important of these have been the Kisan Sabhas of the CPI and CPM, and the Bharatiya Kisan Sangh (BKS) of the BJP. [...] It might be noted that the BKS has been emerging as the most effective and largest of these party— linked organizations (just as the BMS is now the largest trade union..." --Soman (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.