Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Biotique


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:54, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Biotique

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Promotional article MrsSnoozyTurtle 11:36, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Health and fitness, Companies,  and Uttar Pradesh. AllyD (talk) 12:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 * SPEEDY KEEP as current medical practice is widely covered by Ayurveda. If the article seems promotional then remove then promotional content. Why delete? The article's sources might not be great but a simple Google and Google news search gives us enough coverage. Twinkle1990 (talk) 14:53, 16 January 2023 (UTC)


 *  WP:TNT DELETE The slapdash fashion in which the (not always pertinent) references are used tells me that this was created for pay. But, that's not proof.


 * The sources all seem to be either the company's words, promo , routine coverage , gushing, sycophantic "articles", based entirely on interviews with the company's principals ,  , purely promotional "articles"  or complete nothingburgers that support nothing


 * Her education is only vaguely described ("Biotech[?!], Marketing, University of Delhi, Stanford"--they could be "certificates") and the "family lore" which gave rise to the company is, of course, sourced to Jain (but do we need to hear about it?). Better sources are needed, and non-promotional information needs to be mined from them, not ignored. As for sourcing, Indian journalism appears to take the advertorial to unimagined new heights. Having to wade through sentences like "At Biotique, hybrid plant and plant extracts are combined with biotechnology to produce highly effective products." OK, we are dealing with the marketing of snake oil here, but what kind of article can be written when all the journalistic sources are controlled by the company, which mostly spouts bullshit? Ignore the product and focus on the marketing? (they've teamed with Disney to sell stuff for kids) It's not entirely clear how this firm manages to combine Ayurveda with "biotechnology". But they do make lots of money. Edit: just had to share another gem:"She orchestrates a team of qualified Ayurvedic Doctors, Scientists and Swiss Cosmetologists who design, manufacture and pack all Biotique products." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quisqualis (talk • contribs)


 * Delete No NCORP pass. No RSP-approved sources. RPSkokie (talk) 17:04, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Linguist111 (talk) 20:56, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep The topic is notable and passes WP:NCORP. Promotional tone can be improve. Nick Jamie2 (talk) 05:54, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello . Which sources do you think meet WP:CORPDEPTH? Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 07:55, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete it's all puffy words, and sourced to PR pieces. nothing I see for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 02:41, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: Article fails GNG and NCORP. Sources do not meet SIGCOV from RS.  // Timothy :: talk  00:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: This brand is serving India since 1992, it's very known and popular in today's generation. Subject meets WP:GNG and CORP. Accepts nominator's view that the article have a promotional tone, but it could be fixed. Sahilrazvii999 (talk) 05:35, 24 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Lets examine the first block of references:
 * Ref 1 This funding news. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Ref 2 Nanocosmeceuticals: Innovation, Application, and Safety. Academic Press. Doesn't have a page number which sloppy editing, but it is passing mention. Page 472
 * Ref 3 Interview with the founder. Fails WP:ORGIND.
 * Ref 4 Funding news. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Ref 5 PR. Fails WP:SIRS.
 * Ref 6 Not specific to the article.
 * Ref 7 Discussing the latest advert. Two small para. Not in-depth and not independent. Fails WP:SIRS.
 * Ref 8 Growth news. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Ref 9 Funding news. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Ref 10 This is a straight up advert.
 * Ref 11 Another interview with the founder. Fails WP:ORGIND.

Not a single reference is a secondary ref that satisfies WP:SIRS. Changed from comment to delete.  scope_creep Talk  12:57, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep After looking to the results in google, it's notable. See i am attaching those here:             --- Misterrrrr (talk) 04:40, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, please see WP:REFBOMB. Which of those sources do you think meets WP:CORPDEPTH? Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 07:21, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, MrsSnoozyTurtle, as i understood REFBOMB these references passes WP:GNG. I found one more also, [1] --- Misterrrrr (talk) 07:41, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems that you have not understood the meaning of WP:REFBOMB. Please refer to the first sentence: "A common form of citation overkill is loading up an article with sources without regard as to whether they support substantive or noteworthy content about the topic. This may boost the number of footnotes and create a superficial appearance of notability, which can obscure a lack of substantive, reliable, and relevant information." Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 07:56, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, MrsSnoozyTurtle pls try to Notify me, for the reply, I wasn't notified. --- Misterrrrr (talk) 04:26, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk !  15:17, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete The page is promotional, have founder's primary interviews, need significant coverage in reliable secondary sources to pass WP:CORPDEPTH. M.Ashraf333 (talk) 05:39, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep I'm adding my feedback after amending the article. Subject encounters WP:NCORP. Google provides a wealth of news. Of course, that does not imply that everything should be added here. POTLY (talk) 11:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:HEY, the article passes WP:GNG. Enough references to justify it's notability. Isihu (talk) 14:18, 26 January 2023 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE – Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:08, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Isihu. No new sources were added to the article, therefore I don't think that this is a case of WP:HEY. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:37, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete I am sympathetic to the hard-working PR department, but this company needs to be held to the same notability standards as everybody else. There are no good sources. BruceThomson (talk) 05:39, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The WP:ORGCRIT section of the WP:NCORP policy includes The guideline, among other things, is meant to address some of the common issues with abusing Wikipedia for advertising and promotion. This is more than an issue of tone, it is about the Wikipedia is not a means of promotion policy. So we assess sources according to the WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND sections of the WP:NCORP guideline to help us determine what is a promotional article that should be deleted. For this article, WP:GOOGLEHITS are not enough to support notability, and we need to look closely at the available sources. The sources added by above do not appear to add support for notability:
 * Biotique’s Vinita Jain: The Art of Blending Ancient Science with Modern Biotechnology (Knowledge at Wharton, 2010) - this is a Q&A interview with the founder, without any secondary commentary or critical coverage from the source or interviewer (who is not named), and is introduced "According to Jain", "Jain talks about", "She explains", and "Jain says", so this is not WP:ORGIND because she is related to the company, and produces a narrative that is then copied, regurgitated, and published in whole or in part by independent parties.
 * Best hair serums in India (Business Insider India, Jan 24, 2023) - this is not WP:CORPDEPTH because it is trivial coverage of a product or service offering - it is not significant coverage of the company itself but instead lists one of the products with other similar products, with a 4-sentence overview about the product and an Amazon link to buy it.
 * Views from the Top: Vinita Jain, CMD, Biotique (Economic Times, 2010) - this is a brief Q&A interview with a 2-sentence introduction, and she talks about her inspiration, her definition of an entrepreneur, her business mantra, her short list of advice to startups, etc, but this is neither WP:CORPDEPTH about the company nor WP:ORGIND produced by an unrelated party.
 * Use biotique products and get radiant, healthy skin (Google Translated) (Maharashtra Times, 2021) - this source begins with a general overview about the importance of skin care, and then moves on to descriptions and Amazon purchase links for several Boutique products. This is trivial coverage of a product or service offering instead of significant coverage of the company and appears to be native advertising.
 * GREEN AND VALUE BASED BUSINESS ECO-SYSTEM : Research Perspective (Vikrant Institute of Management, 2021) - the company is mentioned at p. 40 in a chapter discussing survey results related to cosmetics buying habits ("the most used brand is Biotique"), but this is a study of people, not the company, and does not include WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * This 27-year-old Brand Has Established Itself without Any Traditional Advertising (Entrepreneur India, 2019), this brief source is based on "[Ishaan] Jain boasts" and "he said" for the claim in the headline, as well as "he does admit" and "Jain stated" for other content, and the source includes a focus on his mother, the founder of the company. This also appears to be a narrative produced by a related party that does not pass WP:ORGIND, and the superficial coverage of the company history is limited WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Are herbal products really that natural as advertised in India? (Economic Times, 2018) - this is trivial coverage because it is only two quotations from an organization's personnel as story sources.
 * Loaded with nutrients, face packs make for a great skincare indulgence (Hindustan Times, 2021) - this is trivial coverage of a product or service offering, with Amazon purchase links, and the HT notes, "Hindustan Times has affiliate partnership, so we may get a part of the revenue when you make a purchase."
 * There is similar trivial coverage about products in WP:TOI, i.e., , as well as two WP:FORBESCON (not reliable) sources, i.e. ,.
 * The Queen Of Herbs Vinita Jain, founder of Biotique & Inspiring Indian woman Entrepreneur (Sugermint, no date?) - this website describes itself as "Sugermint is India's fastest-growing digital marketing platform for Indian entrepreneurs." This is not an independent and reliable source we can use to support notability for the company. This is a superficial puff piece about Jain and the company.
 * And as noted above by Scope creep, the mention of the company in a chart on one page of a source on GBooks is not WP:CORPDEPTH.
 * Based on the source analyses in this discussion and the guidelines and policies, delete seems appropriate at this time, due to insufficient support for notability. Beccaynr (talk) 03:35, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, will look into and try to make no mistakes in future. But, as i understood and read the Content, it seems to be good. Well, i quoted my View about it. Experienced editor may understand a new editor. Thanks --- Misterrrrr (talk) 04:24, 28 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep I have adjusted the article and found this see it meets WP:CORPDEPTH.Epcc12345 (talk) 16:39, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding that, @Epcc12345. It's a thinly-disguised advert for Biotique, aimed at the Nigerian market:
 * Please find us more from the experts, @Epcc12345.
 * Wishing you "total health, well-being and beauty."-- Quisqualis (talk) 19:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the regards. It was written from NPOV not an advert because when I made further findings the said expert Rosemary Kama is not related to biotique but only giving general advice like see this 6 months publications it a related publications but from another dimension.Also This is her firm website  to prove the said expert doesn't have an affiliation with biotique but only rendering her view which makes that reference to pass WP:CORPDEPTH and not a publicity for nigeria market from your assumption.Thanks.Epcc12345 (talk) 13:21, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Please forgive me for chuckling, @Epcc12345, but medical claims by non-experts are not at issue here. See WP:MEDRS. What Kama says is unsourced and would be regarded as complete nonsensical fluff by scientists. You'd do best to ignore it. Sometimes one has to listen to the voice of common sense and not consume the Kool-Aid.-- Quisqualis (talk) 18:02, 29 January 2023 (UTC)EDIT: What Kama is saying is that some chemical skin-lighteners can be dangerous, and Ayurveda should be used instead. However, there is no scientific evidence that Ayurvedic skin lighteners are safe an effective, though, for most people, their use has fewer dangers. Kama is either duped or paid by manufacturers, as are the majority of beauty "experts". Even the purveyors of Ayurvedic skin lighteners avoid touting the effectiveness of their products, instead focusing on vague promises including youth, brightness, clearness, "tone". Biotique sells a "brightening" cream containing "Key Ingredients: Pure extracts of milk protein, wheatgerm, almond oil, honey and seaweed" which I believe was once offered as a whitening cream. Do you think it can change the color of a person's epidermis? I don't. Quinine is South American, so not Ayurvedic, but it has a long track record as a topical skin whitener, despite not being entirely safe. Just because snake oil is written about by snake oil salesmen doesn't make their claims in depth and reliable. Biotique is a corporation which is very marketing-oriented, but nobody writes about their clever marketing. They credulously repeat what the marketing says.--Quisqualis (talk) 19:20, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - The article fails notability criteria for WP:NCORP, WP:CORPDEPTH, and the article is basically WP:PROMO and WP:ADMASQ that may be a case of UPE. The citations seem like PR placement. Netherzone (talk) 00:04, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.