Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Africans in Poland


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. This is a case where there is no numerical majority, but where the people who advocate deletion make a much more persuasive argument than those advocating keeping the article, who make general claims about Google searches or reliable sources but can't name specific reliable and relevant sources when asked. This does not prevent recreation if somebody does find reliable sources about the topic.  Sandstein  17:59, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Black Africans in Poland

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Nonsensical article with no WP:RS. Considering that it was first created in 2007, it hasn't made any progress in establishing WP:GNG and, most certainly, nothing verifiable about the WP:TITLE, the authenticity or use of the term, nor even where the majority of the 10,000 are from (or whether it excludes or includes black peoples who were the progeny of American soldiers post war). Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:43, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep The article does need some work, but searching Google it does seem like this topic is notable. There was an article in the Taipei Times about African immigrants in Poland: article link. I can try to incorporate it into the article. --Gccwang (talk) 01:28, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * That would certainly be a more relevant position from which to develop it, . I can see a point in elaborating on problems facing diasporic ethnic groups from Africa living in European nation-states. As it currently stands, it appears to be about how nice it is in Poland with no context or any noticeable Wikipedia precedents, therefore falling under WP:E=N. There are articles for Eastern Europe such as Afro-Russian, Racism in Russia, Racism and discrimination in Ukraine, as well as for Central and Western Europe (such as Afro-Germans, Persecution of black people in Nazi Germany, Blacks in France, African immigration to France). Under such circumstances, however, this article would need to expand its categories, as well as be presented using an appropriate WP:TITLE. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:31, 6 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Further comment - Actually, I've noted that there is already an article on Racism in Poland with a relevant section. This article appears to be treated as a child article, whereas it is merely an old, undeveloped stub which should be merged and developed in the short entry there. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:12, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:04, 6 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Weak delete. The topic is notable, but the article at present fails to provide any useful and referenced information. The section in the racism article Irina points to is better than this mess, and the article as it stands could be simply redirected there. That said, I'd like to point out that the article as originally created was more informative; unfortunately it since got hijacked by some trolls bound on portraying Poland as racist, with the prior content replaced by a "Poland is racist" rant-type content. Gutting of useful content at IMHO, while supported by WP:V, removed any vestige of usefulness from that article. I did some search trying to find out information to restore this, but I couldn't find much; interestingly a portal dedicated to the topic states that there are no official statistics for the number of Black Africans in Poland . The best I found is the said NGO's publication (a free ebook) about the history of Black Americans (known in Poland in a more politically correct terms as Africans) in Warsaw: . At this time I have, however, no time to read it. One could also try emailing the NGO at undacja@afryka.org , the odds are good they have an English speaking staff who may point to more publications. If somebody can point me to some, preferably online, I volunteer to at least stub this topic in a reliable way. PS. If this is kept, I'd suggest moving this to African diaspora in Poland (per category structure).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:27, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Under the circumstances you've described (and having checked its history), I'm even more dubious about retaining the article. To be honest, the recent events in Ukraine have brought out anti-Russian, anti-Ukrainian, and anti-Polish trolls in a multitude of articles related to anything about these regions. The information is basically unsourced (as it is in the Racism in Poland article) and only differs in having a brief list of notable black Polish citizens. It's essentially non-information posturing as information. Unless someone intends to develop it properly, I'd prefer to see this article deleted, but would accept its being turned into a stub and moved to your proposed category lest it be turned into a WP:COATRACK for trolls. While I'm certainly not dismissive of the subject of racism in any nation-state, if there is anything of substance to be developed, it can be developed from scratch under a relevant WP:TITLE. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:25, 11 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep The subject is notable, and RS are there. Article needs a bit of work though. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 02:49, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Could you qualify what you mean by RS, ? There's nothing there but an RS verifying that there are some footballers of African origin being recruited, plus a reference to the word 'Murzyn' (Moor, as with other Slavic languages) which may or may not be construed as being pejorative. The problem is that the article hasn't had any work done on it for years and is, essentially, a badly constructed and uninformative duplicate of the information in the Racism in Poland article. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:02, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Seconded. What RS? I explained in my comment in detail that this article has no RS to speak of. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:57, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no idea of what RS apply here (other than using it as a WP:COATRACK using a few articles about racist incidents in order to misrepresent the extent and occurrence of white supremacist groups in Poland, or general extent of prejudice in Poland). As I see it, the only real difference between the information already available in Racism in Poland and this article is that of the list of notable people of African origin. That being the case, perhaps this article under discussion should have the unreferenced lead and straggly single paragraph body be scrapped, and the entry be turned into a list of notable Polish people of African origin. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 00:55, 13 September 2014 (UTC)


 * 'Question Piotrus, I seemost of the individuals listed are not in any sense Americans-- does the term "Black Americans" apply to them in Poland also?  DGG ( talk ) 21:21, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.