Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Shawl


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  Sandstein  19:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Black Shawl

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO. Unable to locate any significant biographical details in secondary sources. Being the wife of Crazy Horse does not presume notability, and Wikipedia is not a genealogy. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Roller26 (talk) 03:54, 25 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Redirect to Crazy Horse. It appears from finding bare sourcing on that page and performing a reasonable gsearch (under "Tasina Sapewin") this subject is somewhat verified. I agree with the nominator there seems to be insufficient sourcing presented (or easily found) to warrant a separate article at this time. I'd be happy to be proved otherwise. BusterD (talk) 19:47, 25 September 2020 (UTC) Switch to keep per WP:HEY. Thanks to Toughpigs for looking harder for sourcing than I did myself. BusterD (talk) 12:57, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep: I found a great deal of coverage, and added many references to the article. Crazy Horse: A Lakota Life (2014) describes their courtship and relationship in detail. Crazy Horse: The Lakota Warrior's Life and Legacy (2016) and Crazy Horse and Custer: The Epic Clash of Two Great Warriors at the Little Bighorn (2003) also have a good deal of coverage about Black Shawl's life. — Toughpigs (talk) 20:31, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep References added to the article show the notability of this individual Spudlace (talk) 06:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per references show notability of individual now.  on camera  05:44, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep and thanks to Toughpigs for good sourcing. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 00:43, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets WP:GNG.  Part of attempted mass removal of articles about Native Americans without justification by User:Magnolia677.  Not the article it was when first nominated for deletion.  WP:HEY and WP:Before. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 12:26, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This is an inappropriate comment and I wish you would stop attacking nominators at AFD. Lev!vich 20:54, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It is a fact. You may not like the facts, but they exist. A little light on the subject is warranted. This was a comment on process, not an attack on the nominators.  I wish that editors who start AFDs would not start them without complying with WP:Before.   The outcomes will speak for themselves.  7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 09:57, 2 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Merge with redirect to Crazy Horse - all of the sources put forward so far are about Crazy Horse; they just mention Black Shawl in passing in the course of talking about Crazy Horse's life. The sources cover the wedding; that she tended to his wounds; but next to nothing about the woman herself. The reader is better off learning about her in the context of Crazy Horse's life, since that's how the sources present it. It's unfortunate because I'm sure there was much more to her life than marrying her husband and tending to his wounds... but the problem with having a stand alone page without the proper supporting sources is that we end up saying that, well, Black Shawl was Crazy Horse's wife; she married him; she tended to his wounds; she died of influenza. That really doesn't present anything even close to a comprehensive, accurate, or neutral depiction of the biography subject. It does a disservice to the subject. If all we know about Crazy Horse's second wife is that her name was Black Shawl and she died in 1927 of influenza, then we should just present that information in the article about Crazy Horse. If there is significant coverage of Black Shawl found in the future, the redirect can always be expanded into a proper biography. Lev!vich 20:54, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep based on a preponderance of sources. Toughpigs is a careful !voter and they have done some work here to show that this person meets WP:N. WP:NOTPAPER Lightburst (talk) 23:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment to the closer (and I guess to the editors too): I've requested a number of the dozens of books about Crazy Horse from my local libraries. I should have some of them by next week. I will add any relevant information about Black Shawl to the article. Considering that she lived well into the 20th century, I expect to read at least some more about her life and experiences. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 23:42, 1 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.