Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Star (anarchist group)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Terrorism in Greece. Anyone interested in merging is free to do so as the page history is being preserved. Ad Orientem (talk) 02:10, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Black Star (anarchist group)

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Reason Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 17:06, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2019 March 6.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 17:19, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment Nominator's original edit summary when initially tagging the article was "Totally unknown. Just one or two actions i guess". I have no opinion at this time.  --Finngall talk  17:46, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 18:02, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 18:02, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 18:02, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


 *  Speedy Delete. These searches tells me everything I need to know. Outside of the Daily Mail, there is no coverage. Fails WP:GNG. I will note that I did find one passing mention here and this 2000 BBC article. That is not much, but I suppose that changed me from a Speedy to just a normal delete !vote. I imagine a Greek-language speaker (such as ) could provide more insight on the matter. &#8211;  MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 20:12, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Libertarianism-related deletion discussions. &#8211;  MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 20:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry I am completely unfamiliar with anarchism and its groups. Googling on net about it, didn't provide any results, so I guess it is safe to delete it. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk &#9993; &#124; contribs &#9998;) 20:57, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect per . I feel this is a fair compromise. It could be marked with an Rcat that it has potential. I would say that it is fair enough to say there is enough WP:RS to justify its inclusion there. I don't appreciate the WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS arguments being made to justify its full inclusion as an article, however. &#8211; MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 14:50, 7 March 2019 (UTC)


 * It existed:
 * Greek guerrillas attack Italian official's car,BBC Monitoring Newsfile; London [London]17 Aug 2000: 1. " The Greek guerrilla Black Star (Mavro Asteri) group has set fire to a car belonging to an Italian embassy official in Athens, the Italian news agency ANSA reported on Thursday, quoting Greek police. The attack took place at 0230 local time on Thursday in the residential district of Vouliagmeni, and responsibility for the attack was claimed shortly afterwards in a phone call to a newspaper `Eleftherotypia'. The car belonged to Antonella Tassi, an official at the Italian Consulate in Athens, and was parked near her home. ANSA described Mavro Asteri as a "Left-wing anarchist group... one of the myriad terrorist groups active in Athens and in the region of Attica in the form of arson attacks."  The left-wing `Eleftherotypia' is the newspaper which on 9th June received a message from the most feared guerrilla group in Greece, 17th November, claiming responsibility for the killing of the British defence attache in Athens, Gen Stephen Saunders. Credit: ANSA news agency database, Rome, in Italian 17 Aug 00 181 ANSA news agency database, Rome, in Italian 17 Aug 00/BBC Monitoring/(c) BBC E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:40, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep. I did a google books search under the term "Mavro Asteri" and it come up in scholarly books on terrorism. RS sources cite it and can be used for the article.Resnjari (talk) 07:28, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * its only three sentences about a single terror act. Nothing more. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 07:45, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * There are heaps of articles about single terror attacks by armed groups on Wikipedia. So for this article to be deleted does not suffice. Anyway the sources are RS, some being reports from the US government. Now the previous search i did was in the English language (i.e using the Latin alphabet), but writing the group's name in the Greek alphabet yields other content like: . Also in the Terrorism in Greece article, there are other small groups who have done terror acts that have their own article and few sources. Here as i posted there is sufficient amount of RS sources. Its just that no one has placed them yet into the article.Resnjari (talk) 08:12, 7 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Terrorism in Greece where it can be covered in summary style, per the above Google Books search. Redirection is a preferable alternative to deletion. I'm not seeing reams of English-language or immediately usable content, so it would be sufficient to convert this stub (dropping its unverifiable short footnotes) to a listing in Terrorism in Greece's list. czar  12:30, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * There doesn't have to be "reams" of sources, all there has to be is RS sources. They do come up when one does a google books search, however i understand that that those sources refer to a specific act of terror by the group or other acts like targeting US and Jewish property in the country. Also there are a few other articles (Revolutionary People's Struggle, Revolutionary Nuclei, Sect of Revolutionaries) linked to the Terrorism in Greece page and have few less footnotes like here. If where going to merge this article into the main Greek terrorism article with redirects, they also should be up for consideration for a merger into the main Terrorism in Greece article so we don't have to deal with multiple threads like this.Resnjari (talk) 13:11, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * User:Resnjari Do you have details - dates, names of the person or building targeted - by "Black Star" terrorism? I could run some searches if I had such details.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:46, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * What comes up in the RS is that they were involved in low level terrorism with high level targets, like burning cars of foreign diplomats or other property damage for political purposes. The google search yielded RS on the Italian diplomat car incident . Apotitis, a scholar on Anarchism cites they did car burnings belonging to US diplomats and targeted pro-Zionist offices in Greece -no one was ever caught from the group and may be a factor for the limited amount of information available. Anyway these are sources from English, in Greek i don't know what's out there. Greek speakers here and those who know about Anarchism in the country could assist the thread about sources.Resnjari (talk) 06:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * these three organisations have/had major activity in Greece. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 13:35, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * But the articles are small like this one. If i or any other editor adds the refs from the RS sources to the article then content wise it still will be a similar size to those other small articles on terrorist groups in Greece. Why then have those separate in their own right while this one is done away with a merger (this group, like the others have also been involved in violent acts)?Resnjari (talk) 16:10, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * You have right with your critism about the other articles. But we known very well that these organisations are a major topic in Greece. Maybe we should extend them. S.R  has assassinated people. Ela was the most massive greek terrorist group etc. Black star was nothing. There are hundreds of this kind of organisations with simple car burnings. I don't insist in any case. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 16:31, 7 March 2019 (UTC).
 * Yes, yes, fine about making them bigger, i'm not against that, but few editors if at all have bothered to expand them with two of those articles existing for more then a decade and one for about 2 years and a half (see their page edit histories). So my point is well might as well then incorporate them into the larger article and if editors later make those sections bigger they can split it off into a separate article through one of the redirects. Otherwise it makes no sense to merge one of similar size and keep the other 3 separate of similar size as articles.Resnjari (talk) 17:06, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * , as alluded above, we call this an "other stuff" argument because we only address one article at a time. There are many articles that warrant attention, but we judge each on its own merits. The other three organizations that you mention may each very well end up merged, but in the case under discussion, if all we reasonably have as source material is a few passing mentions in Google Books snippets, then we hardly have enough material with which an encyclopedia article can do justice to the topic. With a redirect, the page history remains, and we can always restore/expand the content as needed. Also, the three discussants below this comment all read Greek and can help if you're looking for more Greek sources. czar  01:34, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm ok with a merge to the Terrorism page. The group did exist and was involved acts of terrorism.Resnjari (talk) 16:10, 9 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per Resnjari. Cinadon36 (talk) 13:59, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect per Czar.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 14:52, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Terrorism in Greece, per . A group with a hardly traced course and/or ideological impact of any sort. At best just a footnote to the history of anarchism inspired terrorism in post Junta Greece. ——Chalk19 (talk) 07:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Terrorism in Greece with sources bought above.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:01, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.