Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black atheists


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Arguments for renaming seem to be arguments for the creation of an article on a separate topic, which would not be based on this one. Still, I will honor reasonable requests to view the deleted content if necessary to form an article more suitable for inclusion (per the objections raised in this discussion). causa sui (talk) 17:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Black atheists

 * – ( View AfD View log )

The title is vague and misleading, the list inclusion criteria are poorly defined and the list would be impossible to complete. This appears to be intended to be a list of American people who might identify themselves as black and are thought to be Atheists. It is not clear if they are all of African descent (this is not everyone on the planet with black skin) and there is no definition of how to interpret the meaning of this for people who were not born in Africa or their parents might not both have been born in Africa. The names on this list are not footnoted as being self identified as black or atheist, and names such as Yosef Ben-Jochannan are dubious as the article contains no clear statement or reference to validate a claim of being an atheist. A specific list of, say, notable members of the Black Atheists of America would be possible but this is not a simple case of list renaming. In its current form the list will continue to fail WP:BLP and WP:NLIST. Fæ (talk) 07:39, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. The article has significant issues such as OR.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Redirect to "Atheism in the African-American community". The issue isn't the existence of black atheists but there does seem to be notable organisations of black atheists and some notable individual authors and activists whose primary focus is on the atheist African-American experience. —Tom Morris (talk) 12:37, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Renaming as per Steve Dufour's suggestion is also a sensible solution to this AfD. —Tom Morris (talk) 13:28, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Rename to Atheism in the African-American community. That seems like it would fly as a notable topic.  The mere intersection of being "black" and atheist, probably not. Steve Dufour (talk) 20:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Would that be another list of people? For the suggested title I am unclear how the criteria would specify how someone is or is not verifiably African-American (as opposed to black or having a grandparent who was born in Africa and might not be on record as self-identifying as African-American) or how "community" applies and again how we test whether someone is or is not part of that community (presumably forming a distinction in comparison to "race" or "black"). Fæ (talk) 13:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In this context the word "community" is commonally used since there doesn't seem to be something better. The article should focus on what reliable sources have said about the role of atheism in African American history.  Any source should say both that the person mentioned is notable both as an African American and as an atheist.  The mere fact of being both should not be enough, especially in recent years when many more people are declairing their atheism and perhaps the African American community seems to be more diverse.  Steve Dufour (talk) 19:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In which case African-American Atheism would avoid the Community word, you would just have to define African-American in a way that is not identical to Black American. Fæ (talk) 20:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that that title also presents a problem since there is not a distinct brand of atheism called "African American atheism." I picture the article starting something like this: "Atheism has not played a very large part in African American history or culture, however there have been some notable African Americans who have advocated it..."  Richard Wright comes to mind as perhaps the most important. Steve Dufour (talk) 20:45, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think I'd be proposing a merge to Demographics of atheism which could do with a bit of expansion anyway. Fæ (talk) 20:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't thinm merging is a good idea. It seems to be an article about blacks who have the slightest connection with atheism and with very little proof that the article is accurate and non-biased. I don't think we should consider it to be part of the African-American section either as that's very offensive towards blacks that not from America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorlack36 (talk • contribs) 00:59, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point. An article on the world-wide intersection of people who are "black" in some sense or other and are also atheists would not really be what WP is supposed to have. I'd think that an article on the influence of atheism within one culture could be worthwhile. Steve Dufour (talk) 01:38, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Atheism-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 02:47, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete not notable;  inappropriate use of articlespace, because this should be categories' function, and even then, such an intersection is not notableCurb Chain (talk) 10:22, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Looking at the article, there should be some mention of cultural differences compared with other demographics "race"-wise. I see none of this which lends me to believe this demographic is no different from Oceanic atheists.Curb Chain (talk) 10:42, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete as per User:Curb Chain -- Alexf(talk) 17:41, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.