Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blackened death metal


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was  Keep (non-admin close) RMHED (talk) 17:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Blackened death metal

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This article is complete OR, non-noteable, and does not reference any sources. A fringe fusion genre which does not belong on wikipedia Dude101.2 (talk) 02:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep. Specious nomination by user with virtually no prior edits.  --PMDrive1061 (talk) 02:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep The nominator seems to have few prior edits, which is a bit suspicious. Either way, this article's problems are easily surmountable, and the genre seems to be notable in general (there's even a category for it). I'm sure there're plenty of sources. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Neutral for now. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep seems like it's here, . JJL (talk) 02:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Those aren't reliable sources tho. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:26, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Note I edit mainly using an IP account, which happens to be dynamic, and if you want to see the edits from my most recent address, look no futher[].However, IPs cannot create these kind of pages, so I created this account. And just keeps beacause I have few prior account seems to be a bit off to me. Shouldn't you judge this based on the case against the page, and the user nominating?Dude101.2 (talk) 02:32, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, sorry for jumping on you like that. It's usually rather suspicious when someone just makes an AfD nomination as their first edit on an account. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. I just have a few questions about your previous post. One, How does having a catergory establish notablity? To do that you need sources. And speaking about sources I've checked and while people do use this phrase to refer to some bands, you won't find anything about the genre on a whole. Nothing. Plus a majority of bands in this article are known for other genres. Behemoth, one of the most notable bands on the page, is known more for thier pure death metal albums. Others genre that are popular are melodic black and death Ex. Naglfar, Hypocrisy and Children of Bodom. Dude101.2 (talk) 03:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As for the presence of the category, I was pointing that out because if you think the article should go, you would then have to CfD the category as well. Musical genres are tough to write good articles on, but this seems to be at least a widely used enough term. (Is it just me or is country music the only genre that doesn't split hairs nearly as much as most rock genres?) Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 03:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.   — Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 03:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Neutral – A small number of reliable-source articles using the term turn up on Google News archives. The New York Times, in reference to Behemoth says "...this pushed Behemoth across the fine line that separates black metal from its slightly more mainstream cousin, death metal. Some old fans weren’t amused, but they have been replaced — and then some — by new ones, some of whom like to split the difference by using a hybrid term, blackened death metal." I'm not convinced that there is enough here to establish WP:N notability for an article about this genre. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 03:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep A minor subgenre like this is not going to receive any extensive treatment in an essay or book but if it can be recognized by an institution like the New York Times, then there should be plenty of other sources out there to build an article around. It might not be verified at present but it appears to be verifiable. --Bardin (talk) 05:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Maintaining my keep vote, but I'd like to see this play out. Withdrawing my speedy vote with all due apologies to the nominator.  Playing whack-a-vandal sometimes causes one to jump at shadows.  --PMDrive1061 (talk) 06:00, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Neutral. The complete lack of any sources is a real problem, but there do seem to be a lot of bands who identify as being part of this subgenre. Ideally, I would like an interested editor find some reliable sources with which to improve the article (and while they're at it they might try to find some sources for some of the articles on bands in the genre, many of which are also totally lacking in reliable sources - and no, Metal Archives won't do), but as it stands it's total WP:OR. --Michig (talk) 18:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirect to death metal or subsection thereof. This term is commonly used, so it's a valid search term and we should point people in the right direction (and at any rate it'd just get recreated). &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 22:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems like that would be a solution, its common to merge non-notable minor subgenres to parent articles. -- neon white talk 01:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

A redirect would be fine with me. On another note I won't be able to partake in the dissussion any longer. Vacation Time! Dude101.2 (talk) 04:34, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Notable fusion/cross genre with plenty of coverage. Undeath (talk) 06:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep... obviously needs sources, but blackened death metal (or black/death metal, or death/black metal as I've more commonly heard it referred to) is a highly notable subgenre that should be relatively trivial to find the necessary sources to justify. I'll do a bit of digging. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.