Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blackest Night: Batman


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Blackest Night. Fritzpoll (talk) 08:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Blackest Night: Batman

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

While it's more than likely the series will be published, all that is a slight re-work of the solicitation copy and guesses about the storyline. Delete for now and wait and see if this actually needs to be split off from Blackest Night. J Greb (talk) 03:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions.  —J Greb (talk) 03:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Well I really do not think you should delete it because some information has already been put on it and if you delete it where will all this iformation go. I mean if you delete this page then you will have to put all the information in the Blackest Night section. If you do that it will look akward without a Blackest Night: Superman, Wonder Woman, and any other tie-ins so you should just make a page for all the tie-ins or you should just make a section for all the news about the tie-ins. But if you keep a seperate article on the tie-in's it will keep the Blackest Night article from becoming crammed with information that is not relating to the main story. Also you should have a page about tie-ins because you never tell how the tie-ins affect the main story, but with a tie-in page you can tell it's story and how it ties in. This did not happen with the Battle for the Cowl page and I was wondering how the tie-ins really tied in. So if you keep a tie-in page separate you can keep all the information that will not affect it the main story. If you keep it separate the main article is less crammed and will not include information belonging to an issue seperate from main issue. --Schmeater (talk) 01:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The information that is lifted from the solicit, an unsourced guess from a site that host both reviews and message boards, or the coda from Blackest Night?
 * Realistically, Blackest Night should be worked through before sections get split off. And that article should be based on:
 * The real world information supported reliable, verifiable, and properly referenced cites and
 * Minimal plot elements from the issues that have been released. Released, as in after the on-sale date. Not based on solicitations, early shippings, or fan speculation.
 * Setting up "bleed off" articles at this point is "crystal balling" in a way - it is assuming that an article will get too big (file size wise) too quickly with material that cannot or should not be trimmed out. This may happen. May. But we are not there yet.
 * As for the "Battle for the Cowl" situation - frankly it's going to depend on how the "Blackest Night" article is handled. From what has been seen with similar articles, the push back against insistent page-by-page plot regurgitation has been to take a hard line at "just the minimal of the core story". But again, we're borrowing trouble - "This could happen so have this article now." which essentially invited the bloat to be here.
 * And one last thing... Notability. It has to be shown that the tie-in is notable in and of itself to justify an article. Right now the notability resides with "Blackest Night", the tie-ins don't have their own.
 * - J Greb (talk) 02:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge to Blackest Night. It may be this will get enough attention to warrant splitting it off - coming off Batman RIP and linking with the big GL storyline, there seems a lot of interest in this from the fans, but it is unclear if this works out or not on the basis of one solicitation. It seems best to have a section on this and take it from there. (Emperor (talk) 02:52, 3 June 2009 (UTC))


 * Then add the plot for the tie-in's of Battle for the Cowl on it's page and all this info comes from newsrama and IGN. The news on it is accurate. If you really want to know this is an aftermath to Battle for the Cowl not Rip so add it there by adding a Blackest Night section in the Battle for the Cowl page. IF you merge it with Blackest Night page make sure that you have info on the Battle for the Cowl page and in Blackest Night page have info on all it's other tie-in's. --Schmeater (talk) 22:55, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You can delete the article but you have to merge it somehow into Battle for the Cowl since it does split off from there and does tie-in into Blackest Night. So if you do delete it merge it with the Blackest Night page and the Battle for the Cowl page. Put all the info in Blackest Night. In Battle for the Cowl put down something like this "One of Dick's first major tasks is to defend Gotham from an army of zombies including his biological parents the Flying Graysons." Then at the bottom of that part put down something like this "For more information on this see Blackest Night. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmeater (talk • contribs) 23:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * uh-uh
 * Big uh-uh
 * This topic belongs nowhere near the articles for "R.I.P." or Battle for the Cowl.
 * What it is related to is "Blackest Night". It, along with the other three similarly named minis have been touted as "How the rest of the DCU deals with 'Blackest Night'." That is the only article any aspect of this should be folded into, if the aspect isn't there already.
 * Also:
 * Plot summaries should not be based on solicitation text. Even if that text has been posted places other than DC and Diamond's web sites.
 * Wikipedia is not a shill or a new organization. Articles should not exists or be used to hype a comic or to "break" or spread a "hot news item".
 * Just because other articles are structured poorly, incomplete, or contravene guidelines does not excuse or justify this one. The issue at hand here is if this article meets the standards or breaks them.
 * - J Greb (talk) 01:43, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Wrong,Wrong,Wrong. This Blackest Night: Batman is about Dick Grayson's version of the brave and the bold, he teams up with Deadman. Also stating on DC the new Batman will face the dead. As long as it states new it will have a slight relationship to Battle for the Cowl. In fact in December or January in a Batman issue new is probably not even going to be there meaning the whole aftermath of Battle for the Cowl has finished. IGN also stated that this is related to Battle for the Cowl and that this will be the new Batman's first major task. So if you understand there is a link between comics even if it seems as if there is not a relationship. Look at Final Crisis Martian Manhunter died. In this Martian Manhunter is coming back as a Black Lantern. You could even include that somewhere in the Final Crisis category because, it is a big deal. Here it is even bigger since people want to see adventures of the new Batman because of Battle for the Cowl and they want to see Blackest Night. So here is a link. Once you find a link between two major comicbook characters you need to find out which one comes out first and how it ties in. Here Battle for the Cowl leads into Blackest Night: Batman and Blackest Night: Batman ties in Blackest Night. So if you understand delete the article but you have to merge it with one of these articles. If you do merge it with Blackest Night and on the Battle for the Cowl page go on aftermath and put down something like this "This limited series leads into the limited series Blackest Night: Batman which ties into Blackest Night." or just put something down like all the other issues in the aftermath section and say who it will star who draws it and writes it. Then put down the link to Blackest Night page. So if you are going to delete this article, you have to make the link between Blackest Night and Battle for the Cowl. Personally to avoid something like this I would just leave the article alone because you have somebody like me saying that you can but you have to make a link between two articles it derives from or you have to combine those two articles just to get something good. But Blackest Night is not a total part of the aftermath, just Blackest Night: Batman, and Blackest Night: Batman is a big part of Blackest Night, and Battle for the Cowl does lead into it because it uses the word new. So delete it if you want to but you have to make the link or I will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmeater (talk • contribs) 02:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * If you don't answer I'm afraid I've won the article will stay, you will lose if you don't answer soon. --Schmeater (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * First off, a note has already been left on your talk page pointing out you don't "win" by another party here going quiet. Beyond that, it isn't a good idea to post what comes off as a goading taunt within the AfD much less on the talk page of another participant within the AfD.
 * As for the rant above the goad... minimal points:
 * Not everything published after it is part of Batman: Battle for the Cowl. That article is irrelevant to the existence of this one.
 * Arguing about what is essentially sucesion boxes for stories is something to do somewhere else. Not as a means to keep this article.
 * Both the above also go for cross linking BotC and Blackest Night. That is some thing to be hashed out on those two articles and the presence or lack of such a link is irrelevant here.
 * The relevant things here are:
 * Is this topic in and of itself notable. At this point it is not.
 * Is there a justification for the content fork this article represents? To date there is not.
 * Is the content covered in the parent article? As much as is proper, yes.
 * - J Greb (talk) 20:23, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Once more wrong,wrong,wrong. If IGN confirms that Battle for the Cowl leads up to this it's most likely true. If DC confirms this it is true if you call yourself a comic expert you out of most of people should know that if the comic book's publisher confirms that there is a link it means that there is a link. First of all if you do delete this article, you have to make the link more clear it's a big link. If you don't wan't to then do not bother deleting it. Battle for the Cowl has more in common than you can think with Blackest Night. Just because you claim yourself to be a comic expert does not mean you can think a link is weak. It is not ! Answer to this quickley this time before the ninth or tenth or you will lose and I will win. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmeater (talk • contribs) 22:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It's probably still going to be deleted, but I cleaned it up considerably and used only verified information, removing the speculation about Bruce Wayne's body. At least if it's recreated this would be a good starting point. --CmdrClow (talk) 08:38, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Well thanks for helping if you find out any new information please add it. You do know that I asked you to choose whatever side you want. Anyways it seems it will get destroyed but there is to much information here that they will have to delete it. --Schmeater (talk) 00:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC) I mean theres to much information here that they will have to merge it.--Schmeater (talk) 00:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

merge to blackest night, no reason for wp:folk at this time. Schmeater should also read up about AFD and general wiki policies - his comments here are rude and based upon a lack of understanding. --Cameron Scott (talk) 07:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.