Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Long Intimidator


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. ✗ plicit  13:55, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Bob Long Intimidator

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Notability not established for this particular piece of sporting/gaming technology ... sources provided aren't sufficient enough. The company or person who it is named after are not notable either. Ajf773 (talk) 10:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sports and Technology. Ajf773 (talk) 10:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete PROMO from 20 yrs ago for a paintball gun. I can't find sourcing for it now, other than ebay listings. Oaktree b (talk) 13:59, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Not a PROMO from 20 years ago, Oaktree b has no clue what Paintball is and is not qualified to suggest edits or deletion of this topic. This is like looking at a steam engine component article and saying "This is a promo from 300 years ago for a boat I can't find any listings for!" 2607:FB91:D95:8BFC:C8EE:3DCE:EF21:9882 (talk) 03:23, 20 June 2023 (UTC) — 2607:FB91:D95:8BFC:C8EE:3DCE:EF21:9882 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that 2607:FB91:D95:8BFC:C8EE:3DCE:EF21:9882 (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
 * What makes you think you're qualified on this topic? Perhaps if you made some effort in establishing notability rather than criticise other users with lack of good faith. Ajf773 (talk) 10:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Oaktree b | plays paintball. JML1148 ( talk &#124; contribs ) 07:01, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Bob Long has been one of the most influential people and manufacturers in paintball. The Intimidator set the bar for stacked tube markers like the Planet Eclipse Ego. 24.217.169.5 (talk) 12:24, 19 June 2023 (UTC) — 24.217.169.5 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that 24.217.169.5 (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
 * It's extremely odd to me that @Ajf773 seems to think that a milestone in the development of our sport is somehow not notable. I suppose the problem with a user-moderated service like Wikipedia is that they don't have to know what they're talking about to pass judgement. 74.51.213.7 (talk) 13:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC) — 74.51.213.7 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Bob Long has been one of the biggest name in tournament paintball since it’s inception. He played for the Ironmen in the woodsball days of tournament paintball, modifying and shooting Autocockers at the time. He can be credited for giving the most successful tournament paintball franchise of all time, San Diego Dynasty, their professional start by forming the Iron Kids tournament team. The Gen 1 Intimidator changed the game by shooting 14+bps in a time when mechanical automags and autocockers still ruled the game. Gen 2/3 Intimidators are some of the most populat and collectable markers from the golden age of paintball, 2002-2008. Those particular markers had some of the most beautiful and detailed millings seen in paintball and even attracted Jim Eaton of Eaton Superchargers to create his own “Ripper” Intimidators(1, 2, 2.5 and 3). The Intimidator production spanned 6 generations over roughly 20 years and is widely accepted as one of the best shooting stacked tube poppet markers ever made. People still beg Field One(Dynasty bought out Bob Long) to create a seventh generation Intimidator. 2600:1003:B11A:22C5:A4D5:E7BF:C41:C6C (talk) 20:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC) — 2600:1003:B11A:22C5:A4D5:E7BF:C41:C6C (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that 2600:1003:B11A:22C5:A4D5:E7BF:C41:C6C (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
 * In response to the three IP comments above, Bob Long (disambiguation) suggests both the manufacturer and his company also do not pass WP:GNG. Even if they were, notability is also WP:NOTINHERITED. Ajf773 (talk) 20:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you please give us an example of how we could establish notability for the Bob Long Intimidator?
 * Much of paintball's history is preserved only through oral record, out-of-print magazines, forum posts, and within the last 10 years, closed-group Facebook posts, but I insist that there is wide acceptance within the paintball community about the significance of this marker.
 * The Bob Long brand, which became significant in part because of the success of the Intimidator, was still valuable enough in 2020 that the IP was acquired by professional paintball players and used to found a new company, Field One. For reference, these are 3 of the 4 most famous paintball players, of which Ryan Greenspan is notable enough to be linked in the Paintball template footer on every single paintball-series page on Wikipedia.
 * If we fail to agree that this article is notable under the general notability guidelines, I propose two alternatives:
 * That the bulk of this article be merged into new Bob Long article and focus be shifted towards shoring up the references for that article. (This book writes about Bob Long on page 206.)
 * Some thought be given to the creation of paintball-specific notability guidelines or adopting those already used by another sport. For example, the notability guidelines for cue sports have a specific section on "Manufacturers, suppliers and service providers" which seem sensible and could be applied to paintball as well.
 * GameGod (talk) 22:05, 19 June 2023 (UTC) — GameGod (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that GameGod (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
 * Replying to my own reply here - To give some concrete quantified data about the long-term historical significant of the Intimidator, the Intimidator subforum on pbnation.com currently has 64,987 threads with 746,267 posts in it. That's just for the Intimidator. For comparison, the Tippmann subforum, who are like the Adidas of paintball brands and have created many popular markers over the last 30 years, have only 252,427 posts. GameGod (talk) 22:11, 19 June 2023 (UTC) — GameGod (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that GameGod (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.
 * Number of users on a paintball forum does not make something notable in the Wikipedia clearly-defined sense. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:36, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, it's circular reasoning to use the lack of a Bob Long article on Wikipedia as evidence that it's not notable. Paintball on Wikipedia clearly needs a lot of work, and you can't say that something isn't notable because it doesn't exist on Wikipedia, in the context of deletion. You're using Wikipedia as a primary source to support your own argument, which is primary founded in a lack of good references, which makes your entire nomination seem like it's in bad faith. GameGod (talk) 00:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC) — GameGod (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Topics needs to be notable. A couple of references to paintball fansites doesn't give me confidence that this one is. Ajf773 (talk) 10:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You've just repeated the same thing over again which is not advancing the discussion and you have also misunderstood my data. I didn't talk about "users", I talked about "posts". If you're intentionally misunderstanding this, then it leads me to believe you're not engaging in good faith here, but if it was not intentional, then it doesn't lead me to think you understand what we're talking about. GameGod (talk) 13:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC) — GameGod (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.  — Note: An editor has expressed a concern that GameGod (talk • contribs) has been canvassed to this discussion.


 * Comment looks like there's been some WP:CANVASSING on Reddit: . Probably explains why we have so many new accounts/IP editors with no other edits on Wikipedia except on this and the other article mentioned on that thread. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:16, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete just because it might be a reasonable sized paintball manufacturer, that doesn't mean that it necessarily passes Wikipedia's notability guidelines. None of the editors on this AFD had provided any reliable sources to significant coverage, which is what Wikipedia requires. Internet subforums aren't reliable sources for this. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:36, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Although a reasonably sized paintball manufacturer, it doesn't pass WP:GNG. Fansites and social media does not count to notability. The canvassing over at Reddit is sad to say the least. JML1148 ( talk &#124; contribs ) 07:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete, I see no evidence this passes WP:NPRODUCT or WP:GNG. No evidence the company as a whole passes WP:NCORP. I understand the frustration but Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate repository for every piece of information known about a sport. IceBergYYC (talk) 08:52, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete. Honestly, I don't give a shit about those Reddit canvassers, they'll just get labelled as such and blocked immediately. Besides, this isn't notable either. 🌶️Jalapeño🌶️ Don't click this link! 07:57, 23 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.