Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Milne


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sarahj2107 (talk) 15:36, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Bob Milne

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Does not meet notability requirements WP:MUSBIO Maineartists (talk) 11:27, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Comment Subject and content achievements (2) do not meet notability requirements. Lede: "considered as a "very good specialist of ragtime boogie" is not worthy of inclusion based on verbiage alone, where others in the field are "recognized" and "leading". Cited reference does not claim "national treasure" in its source . Furthermore, simply being called a "national treasure" by an interviewer, does not warrant inclusion on WP. Finally, the claim by Penn State neuroscientist Kerstin Bettermann is a bit over the top in that any musician of standing and quality has the ability to focus attention in more than one generalized area of musical thought: i.e. a soloist performing a concerto and leading an orchestra at the same time. An organist who plays 2 consoles and a pedal board while conducting a choir with verbal commands. A street musician who plays multiple instruments and rhythms with his body. Even a simple bar pianist who is playing tunes while carrying on a conversation and joking with patrons at a restaurant. This is not worthy of inclusion on WP. It is standard practice in the music world.Maineartists (talk) 11:56, 14 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. Good for him for getting into the Library of Congress, but I cannot see notability here. If he's a concert pianist, where are the reviews? If a ragtime pianist, ditto? "He can play technically challenging pieces of music on demand while carrying on a conversation and cracking jokes." So could Dudley Moore, but that's not what makes him notable. So could a retired professional French horn player I know, and so could his colleagues. (He once told me a story of the day when the principal bassoonist in one of the top Dutch orchestras made such a good joke about the conductor that it was difficult to maintain concentration; but being pros, they managed it.) (If Penn State neuroscientist Kerstin Bettermann established that Milne has the unusual ability to mentally "play" up to 4 symphonies in his head simultaneously, then Penn State neuroscientist Kerstin Bettermann hasn't taken Music 101.) Narky Blert (talk) 23:18, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:39, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 11:06, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 References
 * Keep and copy edit. The subject meets WP:BASIC, per source examples below. Regarding the notion of being a national treasure, this article from The Chattanoogan  this bylined article from Keyboard magazine states, "The U.S. Library of Congress considers Bob Milne a national treasure because of his contributions to the preservation of ragtime", so this appears to be a legitimate claim. North America1000 11:13, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * "How a ragtime pianist intrigued leading neuroscientists". Keyboard.
 * "Man Can Listen to Four Symphonies in his Head - Simultaneously!". Broadcast by Radiolab/WNYC. 18:00 minutes in length.
 * "Neuroscientist studies Lapeer musical genius' 'impossible' skill to help stroke victims". Flint Journal.
 * "The mind of Bob Milne: Unique brain stimuli subject of medical study". The County Press.


 * Additional sources
 * "Bob Milne: Four Songs, One Mind. Scientific American. (WP:NEWSBLOG).
 * "Bob Milne Comes To Conference Center". Fairfield Bay News. (Has 4 paragraphs of non-event biographical information)
 * "Acclaimed ragtime pianist Bob Milne to perform at the Howmet Playhouse". Mlive.com. (Has about 9 short paragraphs of non-event biographical information)
 * "Ragtime and boogie woogie piano master Bob Milne returns". Boothbay Register. (Has 3 paragraphs of non-event biographical information)
 * "Ragtime star Bob Milne to perform at Grand Ledge Opera House". Lansing State Journal. (Has 4 paragraphs of non-event biographical information)
 * "Renowned ragtime pianist and "four-track mind" Bob Milne to visit campus". Sewanee Today. (Has 6 paragraphs of non-event biographical information)


 * Comment The article in The Chattanoogan is a standard press release associated directly with the subject prior to an appearance on the Sewanee campus and the wording and facts can be found in all the provided links. It does not support the claim. There needs to be a better source given if he is to be deemed notable. Regarding the list of references provided: they do not meet WP:BASIC since all cite direct interviews with the subject for the original 2 claims to notability. For as much as the subject states in his interviews: "travels the world playing for kings and presidents and heads of state", “is a Musical Ambassador”, "considered to be the best ragtime/boogie-woogie pianist in the world", one would think there would be more written about him separate and non-related directly. Press releases announcing an upcoming concert do not provide for reliable resources of notability. Maineartists (talk) 15:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Struck/modified part of my !vote above. North America1000 20:15, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment – I still feel that the subject meets WP:BASIC per the bylined news articles in Keyboard, Flint Journal, The County Press and the Radiolab source. It is standard journalistic practice to speak with subjects; it would be biased for reporters not to. These articles have some quotes to varying degrees, but also contain non-interview content. Furthermore, ragtime is not exactly a popular genre in contemporary times, so it makes sense for the reporters to have spoken with the man about his interest and work in this fading genre. North America1000 20:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - Another option would be to merge the article to Ragtime § Ragtime revivals. North America1000 20:34, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment I wish to make it known that I have no interest in this subject either way. I actually had never heard of him before I stumbled accidentally on his WP page. I am actually trying with great attention to find any source that could be reliable enough that I could cite in order to keep this page and improve upon it. But unfortunately, no matter what avenue I travel, it always leads back to the same source: the subject himself and self-proclamation. I'm not doubting the Library of Congress statement, but without a secondary source that shows it as a transcribed or audio source, all we have is a plethora of relayed information from the subject by way of newspaper articles and press releases announcing concerts. The only other claim is the study by Kerstin Bettermann. The 4 pieces are referred to as orchestral "symphonies" -- when in fact, two of them aren't even symphonies: "Beethoven's Emperor Concerto" and Mendelssohn's "Song Without Words". I understand this is nit-picking, but if this podcast is the only notability claim, the source is far from reliable. All of this aside, for as long as this "greatest ragtime boogie-woogie player in the world" has concertized, I have yet to find any substantial review, write-up, publication, endorsement, or acknowledgement from colleagues or experts in the field. If the interviewers did indeed speak with the man, where is the proof to back up his claims separate from the interviews? Any contributor should require substantial resources outside of an interview with the subject himself or a media / press release that is obviously fed from the internet or the source in order to build a viable article. From what I have discovered, there are contests held annually coast to coast in this genre that award "World's Best", "Champion", etc, and Bob Milne's name is nowhere to be found. Merely merging still does not solve the problem of reliable sources and notable claim. In none of the sources has he been credited with the "Ragtime Revival"; and most of the links are in need of citations. His name is where it is for whatever reason; and until citations are provided, should remain as is. I could not find any to support such claims. I vote: delete. Maineartists (talk) 23:17, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:11, 24 October 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 22:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.