Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Ross, Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Despite efforts to improve, high quality reviews afterwards show this hasn’t been enough to overcome the sourcing deficit. Because of the sock nomination I set the bar for deletion a bit higher than normal but the lack of quality sources was fatal. Spartaz Humbug! 08:58, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Bob Ross, Jr.

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Fails Unsourced WP:BLP, WP:GNG. -- HindWikiConnect 07:16, 3 January 2018 (UTC) — HindWIKI (talk • contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Singer Jethu Sisodiya (talk • contribs). – Struck above comment from blocked sock per WP:SOCKSTRIKE. Sam Sailor 18:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 07:24, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Golf-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 07:24, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! Baby miss  fortune 07:25, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Fails WP:NGOLF. Played in the 1961 US Open but missed the cut. Played in the NCAA Division I Men's Golf Championships but that's true of many useful college golfers. The article says, enigmatically "The first of Robert and Virginia's four children, Bob was viewed from a young age as the most likely heir to his father's golfing legacy." as if this is significant. Article is mainly focused on him as a club professional and as the owner of Boone Valley Golf Club (Augusta, Missouri). In summary, it seems he's not notable enough as a golfer. Nigej (talk) 09:05, 3 January 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete does not meet the notability guidelines for golfers.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Why does Jim Jamieson come up in wikipedia searches related to Bob Ross, Jr.? Jim was 6 years younger than Bob. Closer contemporaries would be players like Deane Beman and Frank Boynton. Brian Ross (talk) 08:16, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment All of the concerns mentioned have been addressed including updates to the article and comments. Are there any other questions? Brian Ross (talk) 14:51, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Bob was a first team All-America (1 of the 12 best college golfers in the USA) at the college level (the best amateur tournaments are at the college level even in the late 50's and early '60's). In college Bob won the Florida Intercollegiate title (other schools included Florida and Florida State) (among other tournaments) and lead Rollins College to it's best finish ever at the NCAA D1 Tournament Finals (prior to Rollins college converting to D2).  Bob also won the Ohio State Amateur in 1957 (a field that included Jack Nicklaus (the year after Nicklaus won the 1956 Ohio Open) (as good as Nicklaus was, he never won the Ohio Amateur) and Pete Dye). Bob also played 2 full years on the PGA Tour before changing career paths and making a living as a club pro.  A for the significance of the Ross's as a golf family, Bob Sr. was a successful amateur golfer in is own right (accomplishments noted).  He was a father or two golfers in the family Bob (who earned a full 4 year scholarship to Rollins) and Richard (who earned a full 4 year scholarship to Florida State U.). Ross, Sr. (of Scottish decent) also defeated Dye (an accomplished amateur golfer) in amateur events on many occasions. Brian Ross (talk) 14:57, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ambox warning pn.svg — Duplicate vote: briandr (talk • contribs) has already cast a vote above. Sam Sailor 19:05, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The main issue here is whether he's sufficiently notable to have an article. The only places in Wikipedia where he's mentioned are List of Rollins College alumni and Boone Valley Golf Club (Augusta, Missouri) which don't indicate sufficient notability. As a professional golfer he doesn't seem to have done much. As an amateur he won the 1957 Ohio State Amateur and was an NCAA All-American (although I've been unable to find him here http://collegiategolf.com/component/option,com_honor/Itemid,39/view,default/). I'm from the UK so this college stuff means little to me. Overall he seems a marginal case. If he'd played Walker Cup say, it would be a clear-cut keep. Nigej (talk) 09:33, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * How many places in Wikipedia would you like him to be mentioned to indicate sufficient notability (he was the host professional for 2 USGA championships and founded a club that's hosted 2 more)? He first joined the PGA of America in the early '60's (before a more formal PGA Tour even existed) (the "Tour" back then mostly consisted of PGA members and amateurs on rare occasions) (and been an active member ever since and now a life member having served over 55 years (more than a lifetime for most people) with the PGA), he's received many section awards, received special recognition from Jim Awtrey (former CEO of the PGA of America) and basically dedicated his life to the game.  My mistake regarding All American. I believe it was referred to as a college "All Star" (updated in article). He certainly was a leader as an amateur while in college as well having won many college tournaments and guided his team to high finishes at the NCAA D1 Finals on at least a couple occasions (the highest ever for Rollins).  He's basically given all of his life to the game of golf and most of it as a professional (and still is for that matter as an instructor).  Just because as a player he didn't play walker cup or win the Masters in no way diminishes his contributions to the game either as an amateur or pro, not make him a pro (those that teach the game and accept money for it as defined by the USGA) or accomplished amateur.  Briandr (talk contribs) 17:59, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm certainly not doubting his worthiness as a person. My point is simply that as a pure golfer he's below the level we would normally need. However, it's certainly true that someone can be notable enough by the sum total of their achievements. Anyway it's not my decision. Nigej (talk) 19:39, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I haven't even really touched on his personal life but it has been a good discussion to help clarify some things with respect to some of his achievements related to the game. Times were surely different in the game of golf back in the mid to late '50's and early 60's (including golf at Rollins (now D2) and on the PGA Tour (now a separate organization from the PGA of America)). So what is the next step? The creation of the Boone Valley Golf Club wikipedia was much easier (at the time only mentioned by a USGA wikipedia)! Brian Ross (talk) 22:12, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete- when I first saw Bob Ross, I was thinking of the guy who used to paint on PBS (no relation I assume). The point here is he doesn't meet the requirements of WP:NGOLF nor does he pass WP:GNG, the sourcing just is not there, a mention in a list in USA Today isn't significant coverage.--Rusf10 (talk) 07:04, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Optakeover (U)(T)(C) 15:50, 10 January 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep and note to closer I have addressed the not sourced reason for deletion at this point. He is more known more for founding a golf course and as a reviewer of golf courses than for his game. Please see the additions I made to the article and the references I have added at this point in the discussion. --RAN (talk) 18:02, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete His golfing career does not meet WP:NGOLF criteria to claim a stand alone article in Wikipedia as no major achievement has found. CASSIOPEIA (talk) 10:29, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ansh 666 03:10, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete There's no doubt that he's been successful, but that's not a WP notability criteria. He doesn't meet the notability criteria for golfers and I'm not seeing the significant independent coverage of him that WP:GNG requires.  Notability is also not inherited from having met or been associated with well-known figures. Papaursa (talk) 16:01, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete as well summed up by Papaursa above. This isn't a judgement on whether or not the subject is a successful or good person, it is simply an assessment that he does not meet the notability required for an encyclopedic article. Ifnord (talk) 17:47, 26 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.