Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bobbi Miller-Moro


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Fritzpoll (talk) 08:36, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Bobbi Miller-Moro

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Non notable individual Tom 17:30, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete/Merge - Merge/redirect material into husbands bio if at all, otherwise delete per nom. --Tom 17:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  —94.196.67.124 (talk) 17:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: The film she starred in and co-produced, Love and Suicide, has received a great deal of acclaim. Are their any reviews of her work in it that might source a notability? Otherwise, he limited film career does not seem to have caught much attention.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:37, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Give some links to the acclaim, keeping in mind that article for the movie most likely is heavly edited by TG4M (aka Bobbi Miller-Moro), so it has NPOV issues and needs a template I guess. — raeky ( talk 03:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough... acclaim of the film found through a Google search, many of which were not included in the Love and Suicide article: After Ellen, "review of Love and Suicide", Miami Herald, "Ignoring embargo, Americans film in Cuba", Moving Pictures Magazine, "Love & Suicide", Zimbio, "Inside the Making of Love & Suicide.", Passion abd Perfection, "Love and Suicide", Film Radar, "Love and Suicide (2005) - Support Obama in lifting the embargo from Cuba", TV Guide video, "Cuba's Love & Suicide, the movie", Hudson Reporter, "The Revolution Begins Within", Zimbio, "Public Magazine interviews filmmakers Luis Moro and Pete Maez on the making of the biggest little picture Love & Suicide. Shot in Havana, Cuba by Cuban-American Filmmakers.", Zimbio, "Independent Filmmaker Luis Moro believes he is the best Running Mate for Obama?", National Association of Latino Independent Producers, "LOVE & SUICIDE", et al. So the film and filmmakers have acclaim. This returns to my original statements and question: She starred in and co-produced the film. He orther film career is rather minimal. So does he work within production and cast of an aclaimed film contribute to her notability? My thought here is to give the article a major sandblasting to eliminate the POV and ADVERT now that it belongs to wiki.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 08:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But does that independent movie make her notable by the criteria of WP:N? We don't have pages for every producer and small time actor in small independent films. Beyond that movie what else would make her notable? At best these references establish notability for the movie, not herself, she needs more then this to be notable enough to have a page. There needs to be reliable secondary sources about _her_ and not projects she's participated in. — raeky ( talk 08:29, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * My question too. I believe her notability is minimal, but just barely enough. And to answer your hypothetical, it would depend on how much press the "small independent film" received... and this one has received tons, which sets it apart from the pack as it were. ANd this slipery slope of WP:NOTINHERITED has to recognize the contributions of those who created the Notable project. Notice my lack of vote? I'm not convinced one way or the other, but we are each one of us defined by what we do and how it is received... and that is also a measure of notability.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 08:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think I agree with your assertion that this film has received "tons" of press. The google search you provided only yields 2,220, which quite frankly is almost nothing for google. rottentomatoes.com has recorded zero reviews, amazon.com has four customer reviews. movieweb.com doesn't even have it listed. nytimes.com has virtually no info, and only two user votes. These websites are very high traffic, if the movie was notable at all and had any audience they should reflect that? — raeky ( talk 10:27, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This is probably also making a case for an AfD on that movie's page as well on grounds of WP:N. — raeky ( talk 10:29, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Pardon my hyperbole... only offered because the film indeed has had ample coverage for an Indy, and I have simply responded to your original request up above about the film's "acclaim". I am not myself impressed or bothered by lack of a NYT blurb or a Rotten Tomatoes review, as they (like Wiki) are quite far from being an all-inclusive database for film. It would have been helpful, certainly, but the film does exceed the inclusion requirements set by WP:NF by having multiple, in-depth reviews in reliable sources... and WP:NF does not in any way mandate that these be the NYT or RT. Note that I still have not gone one way or the other... and this has kinda taken us away from my original question. Now its a pity that her co-production of and acting in the film is not already in the film's wiki article (noted below), but hey... we already know that wiki is not a reliable source (chuckle) and leaves out far more than it includes... and her participation in those capacities has been elsewhere WP:Verfied. Full circle.... does her co-producing and acting in an acclaimed film give her any notability as actor or producer?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 05:16, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't feel that being a co-producer or playing a minor role in a minor film is notable enough to justify her own page. Mention on the movies page (if it indeed qualifies as notable for inclusion) sure, but her own, I don't think so. As for mention of her as co-producer, she herself didn't add that to the pages info, and again in this page shes building on her user space for their future film doesn't list her as co-producer. You'd think that if she was actually a co-producer she would list herself as one. Sure she's a partner in her husbands company, but an actual listed producer, I'm not so sure. Notable enough to have a page I don't think has been demonstrated. — raeky ( talk 06:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

(exdent for convenience) Comment I just wanted to note that the article for Love and Suicide doesn't mention the subject's name as being a producer. She certainly asserts that that is the case in the body of the autobiographic article, but there is other evidence to suggest that she isn't. For instance, one of the above-cited reviews at Zimbio, "Inside the Making of Love & Suicide." says "Bobbi Miller-Moro could carry several job titles in her husband’s independent film production company: production coordinator, marketing director, actor, publicist, and fan manager." (Another of the references above is to a different film with the same name, the After Ellen, "review of Love and Suicide" article.) Accounting4Taste: talk 23:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * (Struck "AfterEllen" link above) And please note that I was NOT offering those sources as any proof of Bobbi's notability..... only answering User:Raeky's request for sources showing the film had itself been the subject of much attention.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 05:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. I can't find any reliable sources that give any notability to this article.  I'm "the guy who started all this", to quote the autobiographer, and held off on expressing my opinion until I could see if the subject or anyone else could come up with any reliable sources at all to justify retaining this article.  None have appeared.  Accounting4Taste: talk 15:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment' Note that the autobiographer suggests "And I'll wait until I can hire a professional company to put back all five wiki pages and bio's that are up for deletion besides mine that I created." so I recommend SALT. Accounting4Taste: talk 16:44, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Pre-emptive salting should be avoided. If she has the poor judgement to actually recreate the article soon (assuming it does get deleted now), it can be done then. And who knows, if she leaves well alone for a few years she might be notable enough at some point; which would be demonstrated ideally by somebody unconnected creating a bio using a number of clearcut reliable sources. Rd232 talk 02:17, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I placed all the pages she created on PROD, they're all equally not notable and unsourced. Valerie Hoffman, Simone Sheffield, John Steckley, and this page (and all the images that was linked was clear copyright violations) Aria (singer). It seems see doesn't understand what wikipedia is and thinks it's a webhost from her comments on your talk page. — raeky ( talk 22:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete From my searching around I can't also find anything to qualify her for WP:N the movie she "stared" in will also likely fail WP:N if it was put up for AfD I suspect since any movie website of note doesn't reflect it has notability that I can find. — raeky ( talk 23:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. The company's two films to date may scrape by WP:NF, but Bobbi's self-published book, apparently small role acting in Love and Suicide plus usual indie-style doing-a-bit-of-everything behind the scenes on it don't qualify for notability for me. And good reliable sources on any of this group of topics seem hard to come by, again a symptom of limited notability. Delete this and nominate relate articles. Rd232 talk 02:17, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.