Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bombay, Jersey City


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merged into Marion Section by creator. ansh 666 23:51, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Bombay, Jersey City

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Doesn't appear to be a valid name for the neighborhood. None of the references use the term Bombay, New Jersey Google maps doesn't recognize it, and a google search ends up pointing only to Wikipedia articles. I prod-ed the article but that was removed with the comment "It's now a valid neighborhood" but without any sources that confirm that. regentspark (comment) 13:59, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 15:01, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 15:01, 14 July 2018 (UTC)


 *  Keep: Google is a good search engine, but neither Google (nor any other) search engine nor Google Maps is always up to date. The fact is that Bombay is now a valid unincorporated and loosely defined Jersey City neighborhood, to which the article's multiple editors have already attested consensus. That consensus itself meets the article's Wikipedia standard for being. Castncoot (talk) 18:31, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * A core Wikipedia standard is WP:Verifiability as proven by reliable sources, not the assertions of two Wikipedia editors. The article's references don't support the concept of "Bombay" as neighborhood in Jersey City.  And it is not for Wikipedia to push that concept on the world without proof of notability. • Gene93k (talk) 23:46, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It's actually not two, but three editors, all independent, and all with robust New Jersey topic experience. If someone without New Jersey topic experience has a problem with a particular statement, then the appropriate action would be to place a citation needed tag onto that statement - that is the usual Wikipedia protocol - not to request wiping out an entire article due to their own topical inexperience. Castncoot (talk) 04:14, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked into this enough to vote on it yet, but this sounds like a WP:OR issue. I could attest to a lot of things about my own community and institutions within it, but without reliable sources to back it up, it can't be included in the encyclopedia. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 11:59, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * There already are plenty of reliable sources quoted. This article falls under the same format as other short articles, no different. The other primary editors including the creator should also be informed of this discussion. Castncoot (talk) 18:31, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * None of these "reliable sources" state that the neighborhood is known as "Bombay". Re your claims about New Jersey experience, please note that Wikipedia is not a "crowd sourced" encyclopedia but rather is a reliably sourced encyclopedia.--regentspark (comment) 21:49, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete none of the articles I've seen reference the neighborhood directly or indirectly, and I can't find any sources on my own which reference it in a WP:BEFORE search. I can't find any reliable sources which show it's an actual defined neighborhood. SportingFlyer  talk  21:05, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Seems to fail WP:GEOLAND. The references do not list this neighborhood by name, and while I am seeing references to it at DuckDuckGo, nothing is jumping out at me to indicate that this is notable. There are mentions of the Indian-American population of Jersey City, but that's nothing that can't be covered in the city's own article. Actually, while we can't use it as a WP:RS, I do see a YouTube video with a description saying that this is the same as India Square, in which case this would be a duplicate article. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 21:07, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * India Square is a part of Bombay, they are not one and the same. The creator of the article User:Irehdna should be informed of this discussion and given a chance to express their viewpoint. Castncoot (talk) 23:08, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I hate to sound blunt, but why don't you be bold and take care of that yourself? No worries, I will put the template on their talk page (not that you really have to use a template if you don't know how to do that, it's just easier that way). I'm not trying to come across as mean, it's just what you are asking is not hard to do and I'm trying to make sure you are aware of that. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 00:35, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, they were already notified here. Have a blessed day. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 00:40, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks like they've been on a Wikibreak since May 31st, 2018. Let's give them a chance to return to Wikipedia first. Castncoot (talk) 01:01, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * There is a source (from the India Square article) that Little India is located in the Jersey City neighborhood of "Little Bombay." Kiniry, Laura. "Moon Handbooks New Jersey", Avalon Travel Publishing, 2006. pg. 34 ISBN 1-56691-949-5. Retrieved April 11, 2015 Irehdna (talk) 02:02, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That, at best, merits a line in the India Square article (with the qualified term "Little Bombay"). Not the creation of a new neighborhood "Bombay, NJ". (Using a better source than a travel guide, which are not generally considered reliable.)--regentspark (comment) 02:18, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That's where we beg to differ. They are two different entities. India Square is simply the center of Bombay, or New Bombay, or Little Bombay, as people in the area are referring to the encompassing neighborhood these days. Each entity is entitled to its article with reliable sources, and travel guides are not barred as WP:RS. Castncoot (talk) 05:07, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, now it's reliably sourced, with an ISBN number. Thanks to User:Irehdna for pointing this out. Castncoot (talk) 05:17, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks also to User:Tinton5 for appropriately making the correct move from "Bombay, NJ" to "Bombay, Jersey City". That's the other point that User:RegentsPark appears to be missing. Castncoot (talk) 05:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Castncoot, could you please give the exact text from the source that mentions Little Bombay that clarifies where the boundaries of this neighborhood are? Thanks. --regentspark (comment) 20:37, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * In response to your comment about wikibreaks, depending on the user's preferences, they may receive an email every time someone edits their talk page. Regardless, we can't keep the AfD open just to wait for someone to return from wikibreak. The creator does not own the article. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 01:35, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Mergeto India Square, does not require separate article.Djflem (talk) 20:47, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Unlike British neighborhoods, many U.S. neighborhoods, especially within major cities, do not in fact have boundaries. New York City is a prime example of that. One might say they're in either Forest Hills or in Rego Park in Queens, and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong either way. One might also say they're in Kips Bay or in Rose Hill in Manhattan, and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong either way. But note that each of these has a separate Wikipedia page. In the U.S., unincorporated neighborhoods in major cities are often (though not always) loosely and culturally defined. The salient point for Wikipedia is notability. The source succinctly and reliably states that Little India (India Square) lies within the Jersey City neighborhood of Little Bombay. In other words, India Square is a micro-neighborhood within the macro-neighborhood of Bombay, Jersey City, which Wikipage is only two months old and needs time to develop, but in fact was vetted, reviewed, and even moved from Bombay, New Jersey to Bombay, Jersey City. Also note that the West Village is a micro-neighborhood within the macro-neighborhood of Greenwich Village, both in turn within Manhattan, but neither the West Village nor Greenwich Village has clearly defined boundaries - they are more loosely and culturally defined. Castncoot (talk) 22:09, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * By the way User:Irehdna, is it valid to say that your iVote is Keep? Castncoot (talk) 22:11, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, all iVotes will need to take into consideration the newly sourced page. Castncoot (talk) 23:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
 * {{ping}Castncoot}}, it would be helpful if you would provide the exact quote from the source so that we can make an informed judgement. For your Manhattan examples above, we have plenty of sources while there does seem to be a paucity of sources for Little Bombay (and none, if I may say, for Bombay) so a full quotation would be helpful. Thanks. --regentspark (comment) 23:27, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

If one prefers a merge to Marion Section instead of India Square would be more appropriate since the area includes the parts of the Journal Square district just north of the square itself and most of the area west of it, including Newark Avenue.Djflem (talk) 05:37, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I think a reference to "Little Bombay" is probably ok since a google search throws up articles that use that term synonymously with India Square, even though none qualify as RS (and I still haven't seen the actual text from the Moon guide). However, Bombay seems totally egregious and made up to me and should not appear anywhere on Wikipedia. At best, a line in India Square along the lines of sometimes called "Little India" or "Little Bombay" may be appropriate. --regentspark (comment) 13:39, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This is where topic experience is critical, User:RegentsPark. The *fact* is that, as User:Irehdna pointed out, India Square lies within Bombay/New Bombay/Little Bombay. To complicate things further, as User:Djflem has validly pointed out, the loosely defined Bombay neighborhood has now also sprawled over into the Marion Section of Jersey City as well. So RegentsPark's proposal is not acceptable (because it's now factually incorrect), even if it may have had validity as recently as ten years ago. India Square connotes the commercial center of Bombay/New Bombay/Little Bombay, which in turn represents more of a cultural zone encompassing both India Square and the Journal Square areas. We cannot be telling Wikipedia readers that 2+2=5. I believe that the correct solution here is to develop this article properly to reflect these intricacies as well as vagaries. The way I see it, deleting an article is simply a copout as a way to avoid necessary work. Castncoot (talk) 01:57, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that's true, but I haven't seen a single source which supports that assertion, and undefined neighborhoods are held to the WP:GNG standard per WP:GEOLAND. In the absence of any reliable sources this is a clear delete or merge. SportingFlyer  talk  04:20, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Exactly. you need to find reliable sources for your assertions otherwise we, i.e., Wikipedia, will be creating new neighborhoods out of nothing (once again, we are not a crowd sourced site). Reliable sourcing is a core policy for a very good reason and no sources for Bombay exist. Little Bombay does seem to be used as an alternative name for India Square, though you still haven't provided the text of that source, so that can be stated in the India Square article. But creating an article on Bombay, New Jersey (or Jersey City) merely on the basis of "topic experience" is not acceptable. --regentspark (comment) 22:21, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * What Djflem is pointing out is that this article should be redirected to India Square or Marion Section, of which India Square is part with the proper citation in the article as opposed to creating new articles such a Koreatown, Palisades and Koreatown, Fort Lee, which give a name that is not really in use to communities large concentrations of an ethnic group, but rather use existing names and article and expand on those. That's the work.Djflem (talk) 22:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * OK User:Djflem, I can agree to merging this article into Marion Section. Castncoot (talk) 00:34, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * ---> Done. Castncoot (talk) 05:50, 19 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge / Redirect to Marion Section or India Square as the name "Bombay" to refer to the neighborhood isn't baked by reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn (talk) 18:23, 19 July 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.