Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brake fade


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was speedy keep. This is Articles for deletion. It is not a means for solving content disputes between editors over an article, especially when both sides are saying that sources exist. Uncle G 13:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Brake fade

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

When I first read the Brake fade article it was fairly concise although based on two items of folklore (that drums expand and that brake shoes produce gas, both effects separating brake shoe from drum). When I offered a rewrite, explaining the cause of brake fade, author "justanother" rejected it, replacing the original version. In successive exchanges "justanother" edited his article to spred it under several subheadings with no change to the cause of brake fade. This folklore is backed up by an article in an auto enthusiasts magazine that neither explains how it can occur or shows a scientific basis for the claimed effect. I explained the phenomenon, its cause and gave reference to a Michigan State University publication that corroberates my description. I also cite Wikipedia items that support my text.Jobst 04:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep - This is a sourced and notable article. Jobst rewrote the article as OR, deleting all sources and sourced material to present his novel theory that disk brakes do not experience fade when it a known phenomenon, just google disk + brake + fade. for 368,000 hits. Sheesh. Here is another source on fade in mountain bike disks (same theory). I could go on and on. Jobst has tried every WP:DE trick from edit warring to fact-bombing, speedy delete the article cause he didn't like it, repeated prods, now AfD. For sole reference he offers a 1959 article by a college junior or senior in a dairy production program that contains the words "free from fade" in reference to disk brakes; that's it. Wrong, but certainly forgivable in a student publication when disk brakes were pretty new. Anyway, I reformatted the article without changing much specifically so that he could add his material on drum brake fade; a topic on which he seems very knowledgable. I went out of my way to be helpful; see the article talk page. But nope, it is his novel idea or nothing, I guess. PS, according to messages on my talk page, this is not the first go-round with him. --Justanother 06:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep it's a real phenomenon well noted in the press and other publications. Almost 20 news articles I can find in Feb 2007 alone and 418 hits in Google books - Peripitus (Talk) 06:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep notable, verifiable, sourced. Please don't use the AFD process (or other deletion processes) for content disputes.  Dave 6 talk  09:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "justanother" may have found 368,000 hits but when investigated they mostly repeat drum brake folklore, the man on the street not understanding servo and positive feedback. Many of these hits are bicycle brakes that have myriad light weight problems that compromise performance before getting to heavy braking. Their's is not fade but rather loss of hand lever travel from weak brake lines and contaminated brake fluid. That is not brake fade. In contrast, Bendix, a major automotive brake manufacturer, shows a disk brake and states that there is no fade, which is typical for aoutomotive brakes, except that it is such a non issue that no one, other than users of drum brakes, talks about it. You'll notice the disk is not drilled full of holes to let gas from the brake pads escape. The Bendix page is aimed at truck manufacturers who still use drum brakes... that fade. That is the only reason fade is mentioned. Truckers and many truck engineers have been so latherd with these tales that fade is "common knowledge"! Instead of imputing the Michigan State University author (shoot the messenger), a refutation of that engineering report would be more credible. This Brake fade article is important because somewhere science and folklore must be separated. Validated in Wikipedia may make folklore live for a long time.Jobst 09:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Jobst, that is a great reference and I wish that you would use it to improve the article rather than to abuse the process here. It is clear from the article that friction fade is a factor on disk brakes and that Bendix has claimed to made a breakthrough to reduce it. Good for them! The issue of fluid fade is not addressed because Bendix is not selling brake fluid in that ad. --Justanother 13:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep, content dispute which should be solved otherwise. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 13:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.