Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brian Barthelmes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep (non-admin closure), nomination withdrawn. Whpq (talk) 16:01, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Brian Barthelmes

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

To my understanding, notability for professional sportspeople requires that they play at least one game at the fully-professional level for their sport. This article makes no such claim about its subject; my impression is that the guy was good enough to be signed but not good enough to play. Nyttend (talk) 23:20, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep: This has been brought up before and the AfD failed. Player participated in a preseason game at the professional level, thus qualifies under WP:BIO.  Pats 1  T / C  23:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you mean in your first sentence? I can't find any reference to this page having been brought up before.  Nyttend (talk) 23:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Tommy Davis (defensive end) comes to mind, but there was one more recently that I'm forgetting.  Pats 1  T / C  00:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Preseason games are exhibition games. They do not count in any standings or competition. They are an extension of training camp. Subject has not appeared on the regular roster in any regular or postseason games. Those are the games that count for WP:ATHLETE. DarkAudit (talk) 00:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Which is your personal interpretation, found nowhere in WP:ATHLETE.  Pats 1  T / C  00:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - As Pats1 has already said, this is an NFL player that has participated in an organized NFL game. Whether or not it counts in final standings is irrelevant. It was an officiated game between NFL franchises. Furthermore, one could argue that since the NFL is the largest American football league in the world, that if ANY player from a lesser league is notable enough (even the best Arena or CFL player) then ANY NFL player is certainly notable. The fact is, anyone on an NFL roster is a likely candidate to get looked up by the public and therefore warrants an article in this encyclopedia.► Chris Nelson Holla! 00:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "Competed" tends to mean playing in games that actually count. Preseason does not. He did not make the team. DarkAudit (talk) 01:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the last time I checked, when you play in an NFL game (or any game for that matter), you are competing against an opponent. There is nothing about preseason games not counting in WP:BIO. There is nothing about making a team or not (which is in and of itself a loose-fitting term). I can't see where your argument holds water. Besides, this is an issue of semantics that I'm not willing to get into. The point of WP:ATHLETE is clear.  Pats 1  T / C  01:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Any scrub can appear in a preseason game. That's why they're preseason games. This person has never made an officially recognized appearance in an actual NFL season game. DarkAudit (talk) 01:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That then "scrub" falls under WP:ATHLETE. I don't understand your point.  Pats 1  T / C  01:57, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The point is, I'm a doofus. He's listed on NFL.com, the Patriots' site, and ESPN.com. They say he's on the team. satisfies me. DarkAudit (talk) 02:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is, DarkAudit, is that under the current guidelines, a player in a preseason game fits. If you don't want it to be that way, then you have to get a specification added (which a lot of us would protest). But under the current terms of notability, there is no distinction between preseason and any other game, and therefore it is a fact that Barthelmes fits the bill.► Chris Nelson Holla! 02:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You got me in an edit conflict while I was changing my !vote. :) DarkAudit (talk) 02:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The fact he's on the team made you change your mind? Was that ever called into question...► Chris Nelson Holla! 02:38, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, he isn't on the team - he hasn't been since last August.  Pats 1  T / C  11:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The links above were checked last night, so I would assume they're current. Those are enough to satisfy most notability requirements. DarkAudit (talk) 15:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep - Regardless of the pre-season/regular season controversy, indicates that he was assigned by the Patriots to and played a season for the Amsterdam team in NFL Europa. Would that not also count has having appeared in a fully-professional league? Mlaffs (talk) 02:45, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Withdraw nomination as there's finally a source provided to demonstrate that he has competed; the nomination was made because the article made it sound like the guy had never competed. The article gives no source for him playing in any games; this Boston.com source needs to be added.  Nyttend (talk) 02:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.