Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brian Engel


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:44, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Brian Engel

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Article gives the appearance of proper verification through 33 cites, but in actuality provides almost none. Some of the links do not mention the article-subject and others I had to look up in my library's database to find that the subject is only briefly mentioned/quoted. It is very rare that a publicist is truly notable themselves and I note that a large bulk of the article is not actually about the article-subject and that many aspects of the article are misleading. For example, one image suggests he may be notable by saying that an image of him was used on the front page of Oil & Gas Magazine, but only his hand was actually included in the cover, which is routine for a publicist to act as an extra for a photo.CorporateM (Talk) 01:48, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:31, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

''Article gives the appearance of proper verification through 33 cites, but in actuality provides almost none. Some of the links do not mention the article-subject and others I had to look up in my library's database to find that the subject is only briefly mentioned/quoted.'' Some of the publications came out of the communities in which the activities took place, so it may be necessary to find those articles via a library.
 * Strong keep: Response to remarks of CorporateM, in order.

A general discussion of the article's citations is given below. The citations are grouped and discussed, according to the type and/or amount of information they provide.

Citations which do not mention Engel or his program specifically. -- Many of us watched the shale revolution thread its way over time through a number of companies, based here in Oklahoma and Texas. It is significant to draw attention to these developments, and I was asked earlier to improve the article by adding these citations to Engel’s Wikipedia article, which I did. All PR work at Mitchell, Devon, or Continental, during the years in which these companies effected these critical developments in the oil and gas industry, was done by Engel; some of the critical steps taken by these companies would not have been possible without good relationships in their communities. Therefore, in order to reveal the significance of Engel’s work at these companies, it is necessary to demonstrate the importance of the companies’ impacts and that his work at them enabled or strongly facilitated the atmosphere needed for them to make these critical developments. The purpose of the 4 references 1, 2, 3, and 20 was to demonstrate that these companies did effect such critical developments, while he worked there. Two additional references in the body of the article were lawsuit verdicts, which generated public reactions that Engel had to deal with in order for Mitchell Energy to have a reputation such that it could operate effectively. These references are given to demonstrate the enormity of the challenge. During this time, his innovative techniques were an important part of Mitchell Energy’s legal defense and helped the company to continue operating long enough for the lawsuit to be appealed and the verdict reversed.

Citations which do not mention Engel specifically, but do mention his program. -- References 8, 9 11, 18, 22, 23, 26, 28, 29, and 31, do not mention Engel by name, but they mention his programs, mention their results, or provide a photo with him in it. It is known to many in the Oklahoma City region, where Devon’s and Continental’s headquarters are located and where Engel worked, that he requested that his name not appear in events’ press releases and stories. The fact that he was in the appropriate positions in these companies at the times during which the companies developed and implemented the programs should verify his role in the developments.

Citations which do mention Engel specifically in his role as PR expert. -- References 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 25, 27, and 30, demonstrate significant coverage of Engel and should provide sufficient verification. These citations can be grouped according to the level of detail provided about the programs which Engel developed. (1) Great detail is given about Engel’s program(s); the creativity and innovation which he displayed by developing them are discussed. These are citations 6, 7, 14, 21, 24, 25, and 30. (2) The articles mention Engel’s programs generally, without details. These are citations 5, 13, 15, 16, and 17. (3) The articles discuss Engel’s programs, challenges he faced in the community, and the activities he used to meet those challenges. These are citations 4, 10, 12, 19, and 27. If it would help, I can make changes to his article which would reflect these patterns.

''It is very rare that a publicist is truly notable themselves. . . . .'' I understand this sentiment can be valid, if a publicist is merely carrying out instructions given to him or her. However, in Engel’s case, documentation is provided showing that Engel made innovations to PR techniques at each oil and gas company where he worked. These innovations were subsequently adopted by other oil and gas companies, which thereby changed community-based PR for the upstream oil and gas industry as a whole. This situation is different and makes Engel notable.

''. . . . . and I note that a large bulk of the article is not actually about the article-subject. . . . .'' See remarks above.

''. . . . . and that many aspects of the article are misleading. For example, one image suggests he may be notable by saying that an image of him was used on the front page of Oil & Gas Magazine, but only his hand was actually included in the cover, which is routine for a publicist to act as an extra for a photo.'' I am confused by the remark “saying that an image of him was used on the front page” is “misleading.” The caption for the photo states “Engel representing Devon at the Bingerville Orphanage in Cote D’ Ivoire. A cropping from an analogous photo was used for the May 2004 cover of Oil and Gas Investor Magazine.” While it may be routine for a publicist to act as an extra for a photo, that was not the case in this instance, in which Engel designed and implemented the corporate outreach program.--DrDJNelson (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2013


 * Delete per nom. The citations don't provide significant coverage of the subject, however many of them there are.--Rollins83 (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Strong delete - current biographies require much more reliable sourcing and in greater depth than this article has. I am sure that Brian Engel is a nice guy and a complete professional, but he appears to be a run of the mill executive -- a search of LinkedIn shows no less than 25 persons with the same name, and he comes in 8th amongst all Brian Engels, to which you can make your own conclusion.  None of the awards cited are from major energy law or lobbying groups (say, NYSERDA or Pennsylvania Renewable Energy and Sustainable Living Festival).  I have never heard of him, and a quick search on Google scholar (linked above) reveals nothing by him.  His connection with George P. Mitchell is that of client and patron; one does not become notable due to such a relationship.  Now, if he worked closely with George J. Mitchell, then that might be a different story, but it's not even arguable in this case.  Oil and Gas Investor is a reliable source but not a notable publication; the two articles in their archive that mention him are not "awards" in the usual sense, but rather stories about executives who give back their time to communities.  To suggest that he's won major awards is puffery at best and disingenuous at worst.  I did find some sources c. 1969 about his tennis playing, but all of that was at the non-notable/amateur/non-Olympic level, so he fails WP:SPORTS. Bearian (talk) 17:52, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.