Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brian Grainger


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Eufloria. Sourcing is insufficient. HIstory is here should more eventuate. Star  Mississippi  21:52, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Brian Grainger

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I originally PROD'd this article, but found that there had been another PROD that hadn't been marked in the history on the talk page way back in 2014. The article was not brought to AfD after that point. My reasoning was:

"Although there are some passing mentions of Grainger inside reviews of Eufloria, none of them make him notable per WP:NBASIC and WP:SINGER. Other articles cited in this page do not make any mention of Grainger at all." Nomader ( talk ) 22:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, L Faraone  01:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and Video games.  Nomader  ( talk ) 22:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Carolina-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:39, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * - Note to closer for soft deletion: While this discussion appears to have no quorum, it is NOT eligible for soft deletion because it has been previously PROD'd (via summary).
 * --Cewbot (talk) 00:02, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Sorry for intruding, I'm just a random person on the internet looking for more information about Milieu/Coppice Halifax and saw that it is "marked for deletion". I can't judge whether this article passes formal criteria on significance, but I can give a personal account.

I stumbled onto Milieu through Eufloria. Eufloria is an outstanding gem of a game, but part of what makes this game a gem is the soundtrack. It is the first game where I downloaded the soundtrack, because I noticed how good it is.

To me, Brian/Milieu/Coppice Halifax is absolutely outstanding. It was a gateway drug into the "ambient electronic music" genre, and I still am on the quest to find artists that scratch the same itch. Still without much success (even though I found some good music along the way). The psychedelic ambient music he produces at the same time radiates peace and calm. It is minimal enough to stay in the background and set the mood, but interesting and rich once you actually focus and listen and get lost in it.

Luckily, even having no other artists I'd put on the same level in that Genre, it feels not so bad, as he produces so much music and has essentially an own musical universe.

On some ocassions I had friends over and turned on Mileu in the background, and they noticed, ask who that is, and absolutely loved it, and thanked me for introducing them to the music later.

If it was up to me, instead of deleting the article, I'd rather extend it with "similar artists", and would wish him to get all the visibility and recognition, and more people to stumble onto this hidden gem.

If this article is deleted, he will probably vanish into a closed-off bubble of musical niche genre forums. As Eufloria can not seed (pun intended) new awareness, being half-forgotten itself in the sea of never ending new games, remaining a memory of those who had the luck of experiencing this game at a point in their life and getting hooked on the music like I did, it would be a huge loss if this artist does not get more visibility and attention, which the wiki Page can provide by catching random lurkers who maybe googled "ambient music someartist" or something similar.

So please keep it :) Wikipedia has articles on many niche genres and artists. Why delete this one? I think for this specific genre, he is one of the giants. Not everyone leaves a mark on the world by generating massive media coverage to prove their worthiness.

I've seen much more questionable and in fact some shady people having articles or stubs on Wikipedia, probably written by themselves, and nobody asking to remove them. In comparison, removing Milieu would be just not fair, if not insulting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.63.153.81 (talk) 22:36, 29 March 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Final relist. I actually don't see what I consider sufficient support for deleting or for keeping this article right now. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:03, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Hi there! The reason that the article is being proposed for deletion is that subjects of Wikipedia articles must be notable enough to have an article, following our policy (that I just linked to earlier in the sentence here). They must meet at a minimum the general notability guideline or in this case, our notability standards for musicians. Brian has admittedly done some really terrific work that I've discovered after finding this article, and that I enjoy listening too -- but unfortunately, there's just not really any coverage of *him* by himself. For Wikipedia's case, he doesn't need "massive media", but even one or two articles would be helpful to argue to keep this page. Those don't exist, and so I've !voted to delete the article through my nomination. Nomader  ( talk ) 04:19, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I assume that Eufloria game reviews praising the soundtrack do not count, to pass according to Nr. 10 on the list ("performed for a notable media work")? Because the soundtrack is mentioned in basically every review, and Eufloria got a lot of coverage.
 * Then there are the bandcamp pages: [coppice halifax](https://coppicehalifax.bandcamp.com/) [milieu](https://milieumusic.bandcamp.com/)
 * Those contain links to other websites and accounts.
 * Here is another short bio summary: https://www.discogs.com/de/artist/426224-Brian-Grainger
 * Here is an actual interview: https://higherplainmusic.com/2011/10/17/whispers-of-the-plains-interview-with-eufloria-composer-brian-grainger/
 * Here some reviews not related to eufloria:
 * https://igloomag.com/reviews/coppice-halifax-multi-review-milieu-music
 * https://igloomag.com/reviews/milieu-cd-reviews-infraction-u-cover
 * Now this does not count as proper "source", but to argue he's not unknown - a few mentions in music subreddits:
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/electronicmusic/comments/rbnwq9/comment/hnphqhw
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/ambientmusic/comments/1237oqq/comment/jdwqxfs
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/aphextwin/comments/u51xja/comment/i50d4w6
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/electronicmusic/comments/sdz68v/are_there_artists_similar_to_boards_of_canada/ (multiple mentions)
 * Ok I guess that is all I can do to argue for keeping it. Do of it what you think is right :-) 62.144.244.110 (talk) 17:05, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * I do enjoy more articles about video game industry people than fewer, but it doesn't seem like there's too much here to show that he is a notable video game person. Redirect to Eufloria. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 03:02, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: Ugh, I hate this so much because you've clearly gone above and beyond to pull sources here. The Discogs bio is unreliable per WP:RSDISCOGS (anyone can add information to the site). The Higher Plain Music interview is a great read, but primary sources (like interviews) don't contribute to notability (in Wikipedia's eyes). The bandcamp pages are a bit more up in the air per the reliable sources noticeboard, but they seem to be user-generated and aren't independent coverage. The Igloo Magazine coverage could be something to help, but it's still not anything about, well, Brian himself. Lastly, the Reddit notes are unreliable per WP:RSREDDIT
 * I just wanted to say, thanks for all of your effort in putting these together, but at least from my eyes (and the rest of the community may feel otherwise), it doesn't meet the mark here. Nomader  ( talk ) 21:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Eufloria. No prejudice for the article being recreated if notability can be found, but right now it does not seem that way at all, and it seems he is largely known in the public eye for making the soundtrack of that video game. The article was also made by a WP:SPA making me suspect it is simply WP:PROMO with no regard paid for notability. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:05, 10 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.