Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/British School, Kuala Lumpur


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus, defaulting to keep. Certainly no consensus to delete here after three weeks of discussion. Michig (talk) 09:50, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

British School, Kuala Lumpur

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Unreferenced article about a non-notable international school. I'm unable to find significant coverage in reliable sources, only the school's own website, a handful of internet forums, and some lists of schools. While schools may often be important organizations in their communities, international schools are less likely to have the same influence, as they generally serve transient expats. Pburka (talk) 12:50, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malaysia-related deletion discussions. lavender|(formerlyHMSSolent)|lambast 13:43, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. lavender|(formerlyHMSSolent)|lambast 13:44, 4 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - there is no evidence that this school actually has expanded to include what we call in the United States, "high school". Bearian (talk) 18:18, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The school says (here http://www.britishschool.edu.my/en/curriculum/secondary-school.aspx) that it goes up to British "A" level which is as far as "High School" goes in the UK. Do you have reason to think the school is misleading people? Of course better links would be good. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  20:52, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * This link https://kuala-lumpur.globaloutpostservices.com/about/choosing-a-school-in-kl.dot states that the school started Secondary in 2013, so it is not doing the full range yet, but it is clear that the pupils will move up through the full range to "A" level. New schools are always a problem. The blogs and related web pages that help people to chose schools has some good and some mixed comments about this school. It may be a bit soon for this school to have an article, but will clearly merit one in the not too distance future. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:15, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, albeit weakly, or possibly redirect to Kuala Lumpur. Though the school appears to be somewhat new, and it hasn't fully implemented its secondary education yet, it's still a secondary school, which is automatically notable. Though I'm not against a temporary redirect to the aforementioned link if consensus decides that it's the better option, as it's not yet a full secondary school. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:18, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
 * As far as I am aware, there is no policy, guideline or consensus that secondary schools are automatically notable. They still need to demonstrate significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Pburka (talk) 13:24, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Not a policy or guideline, but WP:OUTCOMES discusses the consensus about the notability of schools. In a nutshell, primary schools aren't inherently notable, but secondary schools are. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:10, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * That's not my interpretation of WP:OUTCOMES. That essay explicitly states that "previous outcomes do not bind future ones" and that "notability is demonstrated by the mustering of evidence that an article topic is the subject of multiple instances of non-trivial coverage in trustworthy independent sources." Pburka (talk) 01:18, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * That link says this under "Schools" - Most independently accredited degree-awarding institutions and high schools are being kept except when zero independent sources can be found to prove that the institution actually exists. I.e they are kept unless there are zero sources to prove the article is not a hoax. The assumption is that sources will be found, so high schools are not deleted. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  02:03, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * OUTCOMES doesn't describe policy; it describes what has often happened in the past. (Although the Harlem Globetrotters usually defeat the Washington Generals, they still have to play each game to determine the outcome.) In this case, we're discussing an English-language international school founded in 2009. The school is private, and must promote itself around the world to attract students. It should, therefore, be easy to find relevant sources for the school on-line. I've tried and failed to find such sources. If you are arguing that such sources do exist, then please provide some concrete evidence. Pburka (talk) 14:46, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * OUTCOMES doesn't describe policy, but it does record consensus. I don't recall any secondary school being deleted in the past few years. That is a consensus and that is how Wikipedia works. It's time we made it formal to prevent these tiresome nominations, but until it is we point to OUTCOMES to illustrate the fact that a majority who contribute to AfDs wish to keep all secondary schools. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep The school is one of the largest international schools in Kuala Lumpur with close to 1000 students. Its also a member of FOBISIA and COBIS, both reputable school organisations. I am no expert in Wikipedia rules, but deleting this article would clearly impoverish Wikipedia.  (Discussion)  02:03, 9 November 2014 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.2.52 (talk)
 * keep per ordovas 78.144.245.50 (talk) 19:44, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: John Ordovas is the director of the British School Foundation, which operates the school. I presume that he authored one of the anon comments. Pburka (talk) 19:58, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:28, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. All secondary schools are notable. See WP:OUTCOME. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 05:17, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:OUTCOMES is an essay which does not reflect consensus or policy. The relevant guideline is WP:NSCHOOL. Pburka (talk) 04:27, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep as a secondary school per longstanding consensus and precedent. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:26, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that, in the past, editors have argued that secondary schools will inevitably be the subject of significant coverage in reliable sources. I propose that this school is only 5 years old (so any sources are likely to be on-line), and it promotes itself aggressively (including on Wikipedia), yet nobody is able to find significant coverage in reliable sources. Pburka (talk) 15:13, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, secondary schools up to 12th grade or A form are notable, but this school does not yet go up that far, so it does not pass, period. Bearian (talk) 21:47, 17 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. – Davey 2010 •  (talk)  23:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES says that the notability guideline for schools is WP:ORG. Nobody in this discussion has claimed that this school satisfies, or is likely to satisfy, that guideline. Pburka (talk) 03:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Primary Schools get redirected. Secondary/High schools are kept per SCHOOLOUTCOMES, Narutolovehinata5, Eastmain, Necrothesp and myself have both told you it passes OUTCOMES and why!. – Davey 2010  •  (talk)  03:29, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Tom Morris (talk) 07:28, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Why was this relisted? The consensus seems to be leaning more towards a "keep". Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:28, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Because there seems to be a dispute whether WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES is citable as policy. I wasn't keen on closing it because it's a bit too close to call. I'm hoping a few more contributions might make consensus clearer. —Tom Morris (talk) 14:39, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not being cited as policy. It's being cited as an illustration of de facto consensus. Completely different thing. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:44, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's being kept open because there is no consensus about this school. It's not yet a high school, so they can say "schooloutcomes" a million times, but Wikipedia is not a psychic friend -- there is no 100 % guarantee that this will become a high school as planned.. Bearian (talk) 21:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES says "Schools that are being planned or built, except high schools reliably sourced to be opened within 12 months, are being deleted". Thus even if this school was being planned or built is could be kept. In fact it clearly has a High School stream of students who will move to year 12 or "A" level year. It is not a Middle School where no decision has been made to open a High School. I now am clear that this should be kept. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  00:00, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.