Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/British jazz musicians with Queen's Birthday Honours


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. As noted in the discussion, no justification is evident or has been presented to support this particular intersection. postdlf (talk) 19:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

British jazz musicians with Queen's Birthday Honours

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Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information.  Dr Strauss   talk   10:54, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * * WikiProject Jazz notified. AllyD (talk) 12:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:33, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:33, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:33, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment. What exactly is 'indiscriminate' about it? --Michig (talk) 17:56, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, for a start, MBEs and above are not only awarded on the Queen's Birthday, and there is no difference between those awarded then and in, for example, the New Year Honours. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 23:40, 30 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment The main article appears to be the stub Birthday Honours (which doesn't even limit itself to the UK's). This list (which is what it is, despite its title) never implies that "MBEs and above are ... awarded on the Queen's Birthday," from what I can see. Those section headings appear to be there for the purposes of list organization. It's a distinct honour, is it not? If so, the question for me is whether it merits a list, with lists having to meet a lower threshold than categories for award honourees. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:46, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * As Michig points out, we don't have a particularly clear deletion rationale, as Birthday Honours appears to be a distinct set of Commonwealth honours, the UK's among them. I suppose the nominator -- who is now indef banned -- could well be asking why Jazz musicians with birthday honours as a starting point? But every list has to start somewhere. I've added some relevant categories and a link to the main article, and that may help direct users to improve this? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:58, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * No, it is not a distinct honour. Once again, there's no difference between the honours awarded on the Queen's birthday and the ones awarded in the New Year Honours or on special occasions such as a prime minister resigning. Any honour can be awarded at any of these times, and no distinction is made between the ones awarded at different times of the year. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 15:14, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I see. Well, we do have a rather extensive category tree Category:Birthday Honours but I take your point. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Not an indiscriminate list, but well-defined. I have a problem with the title, which is (a) both under- and overspecific and (b) doesn't say that this is a list article. As has already been pointed out, there is no difference between Birthday Honours and those awarded on any other occasion. The first two names which came to my mind were Dame Cleo Laine (New Year, 1997) and Sir John Dankworth (New Year, 2006). I propose renaming to something like "List of British jazz musicians who have received UK honours". The main article for that is more substantial: Orders, decorations, and medals of the United Kingdom. Narky Blert (talk) 15:57, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's difficult, because of the historical background, to come up with a title that best represents the article that we should have. These are not, for the most part, purely UK honours but honours awarded by the UK monarch, who is also head of state of some other countries, some of which have the same honours system. As a start I would not limit this to British jazz musicians, as it's quite possible (though I haven't checked) that some non-British jazz musicians have been awarded honours within this system. An example of such a non-jazz musician that springs to mind is Bob Geldof, and it's quite likely that some non-British jazz musicians have also been honoured. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 20:29, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That seems a reasonable solution. --Michig (talk) 18:39, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 13:53, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete for several reasons. One, it's unsourced, failing WP:BLP. Two, it seems an odd intersection to create a stand-alone list, with a triple-inclusion criteria (British people who are jazz musicans who have been honoured). And three, is there it a common enough occurance to justify it being an article in its own right, with enough real-world notability outside of WP? Maybe for musicians who've made the main list, but not for such a small number of people. Is there justification for British classical musicians with Queen's Birthday Honours? Or British rock musicians with Queen's Birthday Honours? Or British plumbers with Queen's Birthday Honours? etc, etc.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 08:56, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as way too narrow sub-list. Since the "honors" are not specific award, just an occasion when a particular award was conferred, I don't see a value in sub-lists of honor recipients by profession. Renata (talk) 22:03, 9 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.