Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bruyere Suit


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Marie-Louise Bruyère .  MBisanz  talk 01:44, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Bruyere Suit

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This page was obviously created in good faith, but a Bruyère suit simply means ANY suit designed by Madame Marie-Louise Bruyère, unlike say, a Chanel suit, which has certain rules and details that denote it, for example. However, there is certainly scope for an article on Marie-Louise Bruyère herself. Mabalu (talk) 16:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Mabalu (talk) 16:27, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment It also looks like one of the unfortunate saps who rehash Wikipedia articles into overpriced "books" has fallen for this. Oops. But does the existence of a book titled this mean that the article should be made a redirect to a yet-to-be-written article on the designer herself? Mabalu (talk) 18:15, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - Just to note that I have rustled up a quickie stub article on Marie-Louise Bruyère so that if a redirect is considered appropriate, there is a target for it. Mabalu (talk) 17:59, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Keep: I feel the editor who called me a "sap" and suggested that I rehash articles is being unfair. He should try doing research instead of making comments to denigrate what others have done. Also, I feel that an article on the Bruyere Suit is appropriate, as opposed to one on Mademoiselle Bruyere, because it links the two of them. It associates the suit as the most noteworthy, which it is. It is also more likely that readers will come across Bruyere Suit and want to know more. Robert (talk) 09:03, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Response Dear Robertg9, I was not calling you a "sap". Please re-read what I wrote and see that it is in reference to a person/persons who has taken Wikipedia articles off the Wikipedia site and published them in (ridiculously expensive) book format but has - by pure chance - used the title of this article as the name of the book. See this link, which was linked to above. Do not be so quick to jump to conclusions or throw around accusations. Mabalu (talk) 01:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, there is no such thing as a "Bruyere Suit" - there are "Bruyere suits" but a glance at Google News shows that they are all different types of suits: one link says "blue and white ottoman silk". Another says "welted wool". Another says "brownish wool and astrakhan". Yet another says "black knitted wool". The last link on says "gray wool with welted pockets and little tucks." The only thing that links these suits is that they are all designed by Bruyere. There is no need for an article on "the Bruyere suit" for the exact reason why we do not have an article on "the Dior dress" (which could refer to any one of thousands of individual Dior dress designs.) Mabalu (talk) 01:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 14:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Theo polisme  02:12, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Non-notable topic that fails WP:GNG for coverage. TBrandley 03:32, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: The stub has two reliable sources cited, and there are plenty of precedents in fashion for a classic design being named after the designer. "Chanel suit" actually does refer to a specific design (it's a pity there isn't a standalone article on the design): boxy cropped jacket with no collar, typically with square upright pockets, emphasized a flattened chest, with a matching miniskirt, the whole ensemble in tweed (see description of "the Chanel suit" here, and a Dior dress most likely refers to "[|The New Look]" that he launched, with a voluminous skirt (or naming a particular design after someone else -- as with the Birkin bag or when Marc Jacobs designed the Stam purse and named it after Jessica Stam). Bruyere designed many dresses and suits, sure, but if she originated a specific design, as described in this article, why is it implausible that it would have been named after the designer in her honour? You are making Madame Bruyere spin in her chi-chi designer grave. OttawaAC (talk) 01:48, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment There is simply no evidence for this. The sources in the article do not support the statement that there was a design that became known as the "Bruyere suit", as opposed to a Bruyere-designed suit. The Google news results give plenty of hits for Bruyere suits, but as I pointed out, every single suit is clearly different to each other even in the snippet views of pay-per-view articles. The "Chanel suit" was emulated by other designers who were not Chanel, the "New Look" was emulated by lots of other designers. Please note that I did cite the Chanel suit in my original nomination as an example of a suit where the designer name is associated with a specific style of suit beyond those by Chanel. "Dior dress" could also refer to the A-Line, the H-Line or the Y-Line, depending which year the sources are from or referring to. The point I am making is that the designer is notable as a person, but she did not create an enduring style named after her. There are no sources showing consistency of design of Bruyere suits - they are all different. (Incidentally, original Chanel suits don't have miniskirts, which she famously loathed - this is a 1980s onwards Lagerfeld variation on the theme) The only 21st century Google Books hits for "Bruyere suit" are Wikipedia article rehashes, the only 20th century hit that's relevant is from a fashion magazine describing a suit that Madame Bruyere designed, and it is called "La Maslowa", not "Bruyere suit". To be blunt, Marie-Louise Bruyere has not enjoyed lasting widespread renown or fame, but is one of hundreds of French couturiers from her period - like Marcelle Dormoy, Juliette Vermeuil, Jeanne Lafaurie, Mad Charpentier, Kostio de War, Ardanse, Suzanne Laroche, Goupy-Larose, etc. etc. etc., who are sadly largely known nowadays as background names to the Chanels, Patous, Lelongs and Schiaparellis. A shame, because they were talented too and there is enough material out there on most of them to create articles on them as designers and businesses. At the very least, the term is only valid as a redirect to the designer's article. Mabalu (talk) 11:42, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, here are links to those "reliable sources" - the first one can be snippet-viewed here - and all it says is "The Bruyere suit illustrated on this page bears out the point." The other "reliable source" is snippet-viewable here and again, all it says is "Famed for clothes of quiet distinction, a requisite for the world's chic Mme. Bruyere Suit Simple to Sew, Elegant to Wear". They confirm, like almost all the news archive sources, that Bruyere was known for designing nice suits of many different styles (not a specific style like a Chanel suit) - but that is all. Mabalu (talk) 12:46, 15 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge with Madame Bruyere article. And thank you Mabalu for the extensive digging for info. I tried looking into French sources, but kept getting buried under links to sources about La Bruyere, the writer. Anyhoo. It'd be nice to at least have start class articles on a lot of these couturiers from the late 19th C/early 20th C. Many of them are so collectable among vintage fans, and they originated scores of classic trends, even though the names are hardly known by most people nowadays. OttawaAC (talk) 03:31, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge with Madame Bruyere article. I am unable to find any references to "Bruyere suit" and a specific named style. - PKM (talk) 19:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.