Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brzozowo-Kolonia


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Brzozowo, Sokółka County. There are some good arguments for deletion here, but redirection as an ATD wasn't soundly refuted. Owen&times; &#9742;  16:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Brzozowo-Kolonia

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Likely does not meet WP:GEOLAND, included in TERYT and OSM as a separate unit, but is actually a sub-unit of Brzozowo per GUS and Geoportal. I also can't find anything on it besides a barn fire. Ilawa-Kataka (talk) 05:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  07:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 09:23, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - WP:GEOLAND only raises a presumption of notability for legal recognised populated places, not individual buildings (these fall under WP:NBUILDING) or individual farms (those fall under WP:NCORP). The location given in the article is simply that of Brzozowo. There is no evidence here that this is anything but a farm in Brzozowo. Even if it were to be shown to be more than just a farm, the presumption of notability under WP:GEOLAND is rebutable by showing that the place likely is not and never has been notable, and searching shows this to be the case - nothing exists describing this place. Additionally WP:NOPAGE is clear that there is no need for this page even if some kind of coverage could be found - it would simply be redirected to Brzozowo.
 * This article is one of tens of thousands created by Kotbot, a bot operated by retired editor Kotniski. There was no checking at all of the data before the article was created. Many, many of these articles have the wrong name, wrong location, and wrong location-type in them. FOARP (talk) 21:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * "Colony/kolonia". Weird. @Stok @Malarz pl Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 01:07, 6 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Similar as Czarnorzeczka. Brzozowo-Kolonia is standalone kolonia (one of polish types of localities, usually smaller then village), listed in SIMC database, PRNG database and Dziennik Ustaw (Polish Journal of Laws). So it's a "legal recognised populated place" as described in WP:GEOLAND. Malarz pl (talk) 08:57, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) A Kolonia is not a "standalone" community but an extension of another community (in this case, very obviously of Brzozowo as indicated by the name). It is also not a village, since that would be a wies.
 * 2) The location given in this article is that of Brzozowo, not any other place. Whilst an empty field some distance from Brzozowo is labelled "Brzozowo-Kolonia" in GMaps, the farms around this location all have postal addresses in Brzozowo. Where is Brzozowo-Kolonia? Who lives there?
 * 3) "Legal recognition" is not simply being listed on a database. It requires some empowerment, some status, being conferred on the populated place.
 * 4) If the place is populated, then what is its population? And if the Polish census does not collect population data for it, then isn't this a rather strong indicator that it isn't notable?
 * 5) GEOLAND only gives a presumption of notability, it does not give automatic and unchallengeable notability. In this case the presumption can be rebutted just by pointing out that its very name indicates that it is an extension of another community.
 * 5) Even if GEOLAND is passed, WP:NOPAGE is clear about what to do with a locality about which we have essentially nothing to write - we would simply redirect it to Brzozowo. FOARP (talk) 14:49, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Brzozowo, Sokółka County Gmina Dąbrowa Białostocka, as an AtD. It's the name of a solectwo (a ward and/or a legally recognised settlement) with council representation and councillors per this list, so people live there:. Rupples (talk) 21:39, 10 February 2024 (UTC).

Relisting comment: Consensus not clear on which article should get the redirect to or delete. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:21, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Another possible redirect is to Brzozowo, Sokółka County, the neighbouring settlement, which is also listed as a solectwo. Brzozowo, Sokółka County gives population figures. If they include Brzozowo-Kolonia this may make for a better target, but do they? Rupples (talk) 22:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Rupples Yes, the population figures of Brzozowo contain the kolonia as well, I just need to correct the presentation of this on Brzozowo's page. Because of how the census areas work (as mentioned in the Czarnorzeczka discussion), it may be best to create a templated footnote. Ilawa-Kataka (talk) 15:22, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'm seeing this as a rural hinterland to the village of Brzozowo, although the village itself is rural. Better the two articles are tied together. Rupples (talk) 00:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment - I still side with deletion as a more simple solution - I don't particularly buy WP:CHEAP in this case since for a mass-creation problem it turns out to be anything but cheap to redirect hundreds/thousands of articles rather than deleting them which is far more straight-forward. Kotbot created tens of thousands of these articles without any checking whatsoever, it is misguided to think the solution to that is to redirect them one-by-one when that would take decades to complete.
 * However, like I said in my original !vote, if a redirect is warranted, it should be to Brzozowo, Sokółka County which it is straight-forwardly an extension of according to its name. FOARP (talk) 08:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @FOARP, do you know for certain that the editor running Kotbot made no after creation checks? Didn't the bot have to go through an approval process? Rupples (talk) 03:04, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Rupples - As far as I can tell there were no checks. The entire thing was premised on the idea that the PL Wiki articles used as a source for the data in them were already correct. As far as the approvals process went, it did not appear to involve any actual checking of the articles, merely people vouching for the bot.
 * Realistically speaking, the articles were created at such a rate that no-one could have been checking more than a tiny fraction of them. In a 48-hour period centred around the creation-time of the article we're discussing here (18:43, 31 July 2008) Kotbot created more than 5,000 articles, does anyone really think Kotniski was checking these? FOARP (talk) 09:00, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Relisting comment: More discussion around whether or not to implement the proposed alternative to deletion would be helpful in achieving consensus here. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk  (nest) 22:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC) Relisting comment: Final relist. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  ❯❯❯  Raydann  (Talk)   02:49, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete - I think it makes most sense to delete this as it is legally distinct from Brzozowo, Sokółka County despite the name. A redirect could cause confusion. Ilawa-Kataka (talk) 23:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Ilawa-Kataka you should strike the above !vote because as nominator your !vote is already counted as delete, so this is in effect a second !vote. How does the redirect cause confusion? Surely, now it's been ascertained that the official population figure is the total for Brzozowo, Sokółka County and Brzozowo-Kolonia combined it makes sense to combine the two articles and put a note in the Brzozowo, Sokółka County article explaining that neighbouring Brzozowo-Kolonia is also recognised as a sołectwo and its population is included in the figures shown. Rupples (talk) 02:36, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Rupples Neither significant nor likely confusion, admittedly, but it is possible it could lead someone to believe they were legally the same entity (rather than just in the same census area). Ilawa-Kataka (talk) 04:24, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * I'd be fine with redirect to Brzozowo, Sokółka County, per the usual 'part of the village' logic. I do oppose deletion, however. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.