Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Byron Hardmon (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Tofutwitch11 - Chat - How'd I do?    01:14, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Byron Hardmon
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log ) •

Never played professionally, fails WP:ATH and WP:NSPORT.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  20:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.  --  Eagles   24/7   (C)  20:19, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  --  Eagles   24/7   (C)  20:19, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Prior recent AfD ended with a "Keep" vote and nobody voting to delete. Not sure what the basis is for re-opening this.   He appears to be notable based on non-trivial coverage of his college career.  Examples: UF LINEBACKER HARDMON AMONG 12 SIGNEES, FOLLOW THE LEADERS; BOOKEND 'BACKERS MIKE NATTIEL AND BYRON HARDMON SET THE TONE FOR GATORS' DEFENSE, Former Gator Hardmon Signs With Tampa Bay, Future rivals team up for Florida-Georgia prep all-star game. Cbl62 (talk) 20:48, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I did not see that this was previously discussed, but I still stand by my nomination.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  22:16, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have substantially expanded/revised the article, incorporating information gleaned from multiple sources. He was a defensive anchor for Florida Gators teams from 2000-2002, including the #3 ranked 2001 team, and led the team in tackles in 2002.  He also was a key defensive player for the Hamburg team that won the 2007 World Bowl.  The press coverage puts him well above the general notability bar.   The prior "Keep" ruling should be affirmed. Cbl62 (talk) 23:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep for the same reason I said keep last time. (side comment: I think Eagles247 is making good faith nominations, just ones that I happen to disagree with).--Paul McDonald (talk) 23:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:22, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep per prior AfD; I see nothing suggesting we should reconsider the decision made two months ago. cmadler (talk) 13:22, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Although it seems to be constantly changing WP:ATHLETE would appear to apply to NFL Europe players in the same way that it does to fully professional baseball and basketball leagues outside of the United States (or for that matter, soccer leagues inside the United States). The six teams of NFL Europe not only represented the highest level of American football in Germany and other nations at the time, but were also comparable (or higher) to the quality of play in the Canadian and Arena leagues.  Mandsford 17:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * NFL Europe is equivalent to the minor leagues for the MLB. Per WP:NSPORT, it is not a "fully professional league."  Eagles   24/7  (C)  20:44, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. NFL teams don't have a farm system.  In baseball, each of the 30 MLB teams have a direct relationship with specific teams at the AAA, AA, A, etc. level.  None of the six NFLE teams had a deal with any of the 32 NFL teams; a Philadelphia player could just as easily have ended up in Amsterdam as Frankfurt.  NFL Europe may not have been of NFL caliber, but the same is true of the Canadian Football League and Arena football.  As with the CFL, it was the highest level league in the nations where it was located.  Mandsford 22:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * See List of leagues of American football. And at NFL Europe it is considered a developmental league owned by the NFL, unlike the CFL and AFL, which are not owned by a parent league.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  22:16, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure whether NFLE should be treated the same as CFL or AFL under NSPORTS, but it does appear that the NFLE talent level was at least as good (or better) than in the CFL or Arena Football League. Major talent competing in NFL Europa included Kurt Warner (2-time NFL MVP), Jake Delhomme (Pro Bowl), Eric Crouch (Heisman Trophy winner), Danny Wuerffel (Heisman Trophy winner), Brad Johnson (Pro Bowl and Super Bowl), Brian Waters (4x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro), Adam Vinatieri (NFL All-Decade Team), Marcus Robinson,  Lawrence Phillips, Gaston Green (Pro Bowl), Darren Bennett (NFL All-Decade Team), Michael Sinclair (3x Pro Bowl), Jon Kitna, Damon Huard, Scott Mitchell.  The talent level is also shown by scanning the players in categories of NFL Europa players, such as [Category:Frankfurt Galaxy players], [Category:Amsterdam Admirals players], [Category:Barcelona Dragons players], [Category:Scottish Claymores players], and [Category:Rhein Fire players]. Cbl62 (talk) 22:21, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are the success stories. For example, Anthony Armstrong, currently a starting wide receiver for the Redskins, played for the Odessa Roughnecks of the Intense Football League in 2006. Because a notable player came out of that football league, does that mean all players who played in that league are automatically notable? The bottom line is, NFL Europe is not a professional league. It was a developmental league for NFL players at the bottom of offseason roster to gain playing experience.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  23:00, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what the right answer is. A few random success stories certainly wouldn't do it.  But the overall talent level in NFLE vs. CFL/Arena Football does seem pertinent. I guess your point is that the talent level isn't relevant, e.g., baseball's AAA might have a higher talent level (as most of MLB's stars played there at one time) than the Nippon Professional Baseball league, but that doesn't matter because AAA is still a minor/developmental league for MLB.  Cbl62 (talk) 23:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * During their time in NFL Europe, none of these players were as good as their legacy in the NFL was. They aren't known for their careers in NFL Europe. But let's get back to Hardmon. The only criteria Hardmon meets (possibly) is GNG, since he certainly does not meet ATH or NSPORT.  Eagles   24/7  (C)  23:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep while playing in NFL Europe doesn't mean he meets WP:ATHLETE, Cbl62 already shown there are plenty of reliable sources on this article. (note I was the nominator of the previous article). Secret account 03:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.